Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Abarth]

I wish all manufacturers and teams would be only 10% as open as Honda is.
It's great, kudos to them.

To the technical side:
What to make about the relationship between max. harvesting of MGU-H and required power to spool the compressor in quali on straights 1 and 2, which seems to be about 2:1?
I recall gruntguru making power estimates for the compressor, and for MAP=3.5 he came to about 80 kW. So it seems that in qualy still a substancial part of the required power comes from (blowdown?) exhaust energy?
Maybe 40 kW from exhaust and 40 kW from MGU-H?
Coming back to the relationship in the graph, that shows that MGU-H recovery is double the power requirement, MGU-H recovery would then be about 80 kW (which again is in the ballpark of estimates here).

[Thunder]

I wish all manufacturers and teams would be only 10% as open as Honda is.
It's great, kudos to them.

This *10.

People wonder why these PU's arent as popular as they should be considering they are technical and mechanical Masterpieces. Well the Majority of People doesn't understand how they work and all the Manufacturers do is hide everything at any cost, so no one can gets slight glimpse of what happens and how. This really infuriates me.

Great from Honda to allow such Articles and showcasing their PU's in Suzuka every Year.

[diffuser]

Don't take this in a negative way but I bet we're seeing this cause the 2017 is gonna be just that much different from the 2016.

[Thunder]

Of course, but Honda at least gives away something. These PU's deserve so much more attention. (of a technical Nature not "booo to quiet")

[Wazari]

I'm glad that some of the race telemetry graphs were made easily available to race fans. Now everyone can really see the real relationship between the MGU-H and ES as the car makes it way around the track. As of now, the MGU-H's output level is not where it would be efficient to power the K unit directly. Simply more efficient to direct the output to the ES bank. Peak power is derived so far by having compressor driven by MGU-H.

[HPD]

From Muramasa.

in that diagram pics, the first telemetry is race, the second one is quali (Austria GP, Red Bull Ring btw)
in the telemetry graph, it's:

-----------
throttle
engine rpm
car velocity
---------
comprehensive output (ICE + MGU-K assist)
MGU-K
MGU-H
| deploy
| 0
| regenerate

-------
battery level
ES > MGU-K
MGU-K > ES

[Abarth]

From Muramasa.

in that diagram pics, the first telemetry is race, the second one is quali (Austria GP, Red Bull Ring btw)
[...]]

Apart that all this has alredy been posted in the previous pages, you did only post the race telemetry.....
That helps only to increase confusion.

[PlatinumZealot]

That's some amazing information. Thank you Muromasa and those who ported it over.

It's interesting that on the straights the MGU-H is driving the turbo, it goes some way to show why Honda are stuggling less on straights now but they of course have to get that back elsewhere. I assume all teams do this?

It's also interesting that there is no direct path between the MGU-H and the MGU-K. In stead the MGU-H charges the energy store and that powers the MGU-K.

I would love Wazari's opinion on this, i expect he could comment freely on something that is already in the public domain.

I see the MGUH seems to start working immediately after the braking events (and in those braking events the MGUK is in charging as well) into the turns when ICE power is not needed to be high. And then it spools up the compressor in accerlation zone of the straights. ( I see where you are coming from though)

Look at the Engine rpm graphs and the Velocity graphs and you will see when the sharp dips start that is the braking period. You then look down to the Sky blue plot the MGUK and you see a short plateu at this braking period. Then the Gold graph which is the MGUH and you can see after that it increases.

[PlatinumZealot]

That's crazy ... I remember a photoshoot in Car Magazine from the 90's (?) of an F1 car (Benetton Ford maybe ?) where they weren't allowed to shoot any pictures of the engine that had fasteners in view, as from standard fastener size other dimensions could be deduced. Nowadays it's all in the software I'm joking ! Guess software + internals + MGU's etc matter more ? And probably this engine's going into the (metaphorical) bin, so it doesn't matter so much.

Nope, the secrets are still in the hardware.

[PlatinumZealot]

Don't take this in a negative way but I bet we're seeing this cause the 2017 is gonna be just that much different from the 2016.

There is some truth to that. But I think this migth be some new approach by the marketing folks. Probably they poked and prodded the engineers to realease the info - at their behest. But I think it's fairly harmless since Honda is at the back of the pack anyway, and the cat's been out of the bag on charging strategies since late 2015. Those supercomputer simulations pretty much arrive at the best charging strategies after the driver takes a few laps in P2. However big respect to Honda for doing this. Big respect to Muramassa as well. One more reason to move to Japan (If they would let me )

[Brian Coat]

If anyone who's a regular on here is interested, I have a digitized version of the telemetry chart shown above, in Excel.
Send me a message.

http://imgur.com/a/LgagQ

[Sasha]

Honda past history......when they release their Racing Engine specs/data.....that means they are done with it(design).
So that means the 2017 PU is 100% new design.

[Abarth]

Honda past history......when they release their Racing Engine specs/data.....that means they are done with it(design).
So that means the 2017 PU is 100% new design.

Possibly so...

But that still doesn't invalidate many insights, some of them in the telemetry data. They obviously think that their competition uses the MGU's similarly and had no fear to publish it for the technically interested people. I applaud them for that.
We now can see (and confirm what some here have already stated) the MGU-H operation in race and qualification, and also the confirmation that MGU-K is used to increase load and charge the ES during part load operation.

[Sasha]

Honda past history......when they release their Racing Engine specs/data.....that means they are done with it(design).
So that means the 2017 PU is 100% new design.

Possibly so...

But that still doesn't invalidate many insights, some of them in the telemetry data. They obviously think that their competition uses the MGU's similarly and had no fear to publish it for the technically interested people. I applaud them for that.
We now can see (and confirm what some here have already stated) the MGU-H operation in race and qualification, and also the confirmation that MGU-K is used to increase load and charge the ES during part load operation.

Sorry but everybody knew that(or had educated guess) from day one.The big secrets in 2014-2015 was the pre-chamber/trick injectors and MGU-H direct to MGU-K(bypassing the battery)...only MB got all those right from day one.Everybody will have it in 2017.

[ringo]

It's pretty cool how the MGUs are synced with the gear changes so precisely. Especially the MGUH. I was expecting it to just be doing its own thing, since it's not mechanically coupled to the drive-train.
It may well be manipulating the compressor during gear changes, and possible the engine's back pressure.