A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
It's so funny to see people still arguing that RBR was a match or better chassis wise than Merc. The gap was close to a second if Merc were pushing, which is massive, and most importantly excluding for Monaco the gap was constant through all tracks whether they are more engine or chassis dependant. That is the biggest clue that the chassis advantage was contributing to the gap as much as the PU. It was said on one of the FP sessions through the season that Manor gained 2 seconds per lap from the 2016 Merc PU over the 2014 Ferrari (which was total crap even back in 2014). I doubt that given this information any rational person will think that the upgraded 2016 PU from Renault would be so far behind to contribute 1 second per lap worth of deficit.
The Mercedes is clearly the best chassis with the Red Bull probably it's equal but we will never really know. Both of those chassis are so far ahead of everything else it isn't funny. In the case of the W07 when combined with that magnificent motor it propelled them to the head of the pack at every weekend except Monaco in Qualifying and gave them about 6 tenths to a second advantage over Red bull and Ferrari. The W07 was clearly the best overall package and there is no denying this. What I am sick and tired of is the people who say that the engine had nothing to do with the advantage of the W07 over the RB12. It is like saying the MP4/4 didn't have an engine advantage in 1988 or the FW14B and 15C didn't have an engine advantage in 1992 or 1993. Sure those cars had great chassis but they also disappeared in a straight line at tracks like Monza and the old Hockenheimring. As proved in 1995 with the Benetton driven by a certain 7 time champion and the same engine as Williams who had 6 years experience. The engine can prove a level playing field if the chassis is close enough.
Both engine and chassis were supreme, hence the advantage of Mercedes.
I still believe the merc chassis beats the RBR's, sometimes slightly, sometimes with a huge advantage (depending on which track).
The engine of course plays it's part too but I'm sick of all the mentioning: it was all the engine of merc that gave them this advantage. Those people clearly don't have a clue. Renault made massive strides and all this Horner blabla (we're 50hp down, )is all crap!
It's the total package that counts. That's why rbr leapfrogged Ferrari after their engine upgrade.
Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!
If you can't beat'em, call Masi!
Bah you sound-naggers make me cranky. The sound is awesome and only really beaten by some of the V10:s or V12:s, but that was almost a 100 years ago now. Get over it
hurril wrote:Bah you sound-naggers make me cranky. The sound is awesome and only really beaten by some of the V10:s or V12:s, but that was almost a 100 years ago now. Get over it
It was an objective question, based on claims made by the sport for this year.
hurril wrote:Bah you sound-naggers make me cranky. The sound is awesome and only really beaten by some of the V10:s or V12:s, but that was almost a 100 years ago now. Get over it
It was an objective question, based on claims made by the sport for this year.
Personally I prefer the non deafening sound of the hybrids. Unless you are in a pit box you don't need hearing protection, and thus can actually communicate with those around you.
De Jokke wrote:It's w07 thread, shouldn't this be closed long time ago?
We always leave the car threads open, contrary to the team threads. Since team operations are defined by time, it does not make sense to keep old ones open. However, details of particular cars can be still be leaked several years later.
I do have to question why we are discussing the sound of the engines in this thread. The acoustics around here are horrible anyway!
