Question about F1 front wings camber adjustment

[firasf1dream]

Greetings everyone,
referring to the image below, I would like please to ask you please about the adjustment of a front wing in F1 nowadays. I am not sure what is the exact technical word used to refer to the mechanism used to adjust the f1 front wing flaps so I will call it adjuster. So what i want to know is what happens exactly when the mechanic turns the screw of the adjuster how is the angle of attack adjusted ? is it by twisting the wing at the main plane from position 1 to position 2 on the picture using the flexibility of the carbon wing which lower the highest flap trailing edge hence the overall angle of attack of the whole wing is adjusted ?
if so, wouldn't that keep the same camber of the whole wing ?



thank you everyone in advance

[godlameroso]

I think it's just the two upper flaps that change angle.

[firasf1dream]

I think it's just the two upper flaps that change angle.

thank you for your reply godlameroso, but the flaps are connected to the lower ones from the back with turning vanes so wouldn't that make them one piece ?

[godlameroso]

I think it's just the two upper flaps that change angle.

thank you for your reply godlameroso, but the flaps are connected to the lower ones from the back with turning vanes so wouldn't that make them one piece ?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

[firasf1dream]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

[/quote][/quote]

I am still not convinced i pointed in the picture at the connection
but i did not get an answer about how does it change the angle ? is it by just twisting the flap by inducing stress using the screw ?
if so wouldn't that change the tolerance between the flaps too ? and how many degrees is it possible to change it if it's that way ?

here is the picture

[godlameroso]

I don't know the answer to your question, from a mechanical perspective it looks like the upper flaps are the only ones that change their angle of attack.

[trinidefender]

The outboard flaps (where your blue arrow is pointing) aren't adjustable. This section is more about controlling airflow around the tyre and resulting tyre wake as well as pure downforce therefore there isn't much of a need for it to change from track to track.

The section to the left in that picture, the top 2 flaps on the inner portion of the wing adjust on a pivot.

The outer and inner parts of the flap aren't connected. Hope this answers your question.

[firasf1dream]

The outboard flaps (where your blue arrow is pointing) aren't adjustable. This section is more about controlling airflow around the tyre and resulting tyre wake as well as pure downforce therefore there isn't much of a need for it to change from track to track.

hello trinidefender,
thank you for your reply, we're on the right track, so you are talking about the first picture or second ?
so if they are not adjustable what is the adjuster used for exactly ?

The section to the left in that picture, the top 2 flaps on the inner portion of the wing adjust on a pivot.

i don't understand, can you explain please or point in picture ? because i do not see how would they pivot ?

The outer and inner parts of the flap aren't connected. Hope this answers your question.

you mean aren't a 1 piece flap ? if not how are they supported ?

[turbof1]

If you are looking at a front wing from the front:

https://u.cubeupload.com/turbof1/MW.jpg
(without endplate and cascade to simplify), you'll notice the upperflap has an outboard section (2 elements) and an inboard section (1 element). The outboard section is static: these are solid pieces fixed to the footplate and sometimes the endplate.

The inboard upperflap (in this case: some teams can adjust 2 inboard flaps) can be adjusted through a screw mechanism. Mercedes has a somewhat different system, where the uppermost flap is fixed toward the flap below, but not towards the rest of the wing:


The supports are quite complex. If the screw mechanism is used, the supports can turn and pivot the flaps, but otherwise they are fixed. These are quite complex set ups, with a lot of work inside the flaps. Yellow is the divider between inboard and outboard sections, blue is the screw itself, and green acts as both a support for rigidity and as pivotting system.

[firasf1dream]

If you are looking at a front wing from the front:

https://u.cubeupload.com/turbof1/MW.jpg
(without endplate and cascade to simplify), you'll notice the upperflap has an outboard section (2 elements) and an inboard section (1 element). The outboard section is static: these are solid pieces fixed to the footplate and sometimes the endplate.

The inboard upperflap (in this case: some teams can adjust 2 inboard flaps) can be adjusted through a screw mechanism. Mercedes has a somewhat different system, where the uppermost flap is fixed toward the flap below, but not towards the rest of the wing:

The supports are quite complex. If the screw mechanism is used, the supports can turn and pivot the flaps, but otherwise they are fixed. These are quite complex set ups, with a lot of work inside the flaps. Yellow is the divider between inboard and outboard sections, blue is the screw itself, and green acts as both a support for rigidity and as pivotting system.

thank you turbof1, so as you say the pivot is at the bottom of the green support ? so if that metal shape at the green of the support is taken away i would see it has like a pin screw with a little thread at it's tip which will go in the green support from the side of the endplate and towards the center line of the car and will enter the metal piece but at it's middle there is no thread which will make it rotate inside of the screen support ?
and how many degrees can this flap be adjusted ? and when adjusted wouldn't that make disturbance in the flow at the metal wall between the flap and the outer part fixed to the footplate ?

is this how it pivots somehow ?

[turbof1]

If you are looking at a front wing from the front:

https://u.cubeupload.com/turbof1/MW.jpg
(without endplate and cascade to simplify), you'll notice the upperflap has an outboard section (2 elements) and an inboard section (1 element). The outboard section is static: these are solid pieces fixed to the footplate and sometimes the endplate.

The inboard upperflap (in this case: some teams can adjust 2 inboard flaps) can be adjusted through a screw mechanism. Mercedes has a somewhat different system, where the uppermost flap is fixed toward the flap below, but not towards the rest of the wing:

The supports are quite complex. If the screw mechanism is used, the supports can turn and pivot the flaps, but otherwise they are fixed. These are quite complex set ups, with a lot of work inside the flaps. Yellow is the divider between inboard and outboard sections, blue is the screw itself, and green acts as both a support for rigidity and as pivotting system.

thank you turbof1, so as you say the pivot is at the bottom of the green support ? so if that metal shape at the green of the support is taken away i would see it has like a pin screw with a little thread at it's tip which will go in the green support from the side of the endplate and towards the center line of the car and will enter the metal piece but at it's middle there is no thread which will make it rotate inside of the screen support ?

is this how it pivots somehow ?
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/ ... 4qwgjy.jpg

I really do not have knowledge on specific inner workings of it. Especially not given as you see that Ferrari uses a somewhat different system. However, your proposal is viable.

and how many degrees can this flap be adjusted ? and when adjusted wouldn't that make disturbance in the flow at the metal wall between the flap and the outer part fixed to the footplate ?

I'm making rough guesses here, but assuming full angle is 90° at the trailling edge, you could go -again, I think- to around 110-120°, so 30° leeway on a guess. Note you'll probably never see such drastic changes in the race: the flap will have a set angle at the start of the race and will be adjusted to keep balance. You might see around 10° variance during the race, also depending on the amount of pitstops.

If a circuit requires inherently even less angle of attack, teams are going to change the flaps themselves to have simply have less surface area. Do note that the inner most part of the flaps at the Y250 region are very, very important. Teams very much refrain from tampering with it, resulting in some weird flaps:

The the flap tips in general in that region will also barely change position. Infact they'll probably stay in place:


I do not believe you'll get issues at the metal wall. Infact it will always create a vortex there even if there's no gap between outer and innder part. Teams put flap adjuster and metal wall in a very specific region to help divert airflow around the tyre.

[firasf1dream]

ok I see thank you turbof1, so we can say that, usually the 2 upper flaps will be changed from race to race with less angle or more angle of attack and camber, and not changed like it used to be in 2009 where i can say from looking at some ferrari close pictures that the upper flap will have some sort of slot in the endplate (which contain a servo), and when the driver make the command from the steering wheel the servo will push the flap up or down to make a different angle of attack

[turbof1]

ok I see thank you turbof1, so we can say that, usually the 2 upper flaps will be changed from race to race with less angle or more angle of attack and camber, and not changed like it used to be in 2009 where i can say from looking at some ferrari close pictures that the upper flap will have some sort of slot in the endplate (which contain a servo), and when the driver make the command from the steering wheel the servo will push the flap up or down to make a different angle of attack

Yes. In 2009 and 2010 drivers were allowed to change flap angle a few times each lap (active aerodynamics), meaning they could specifically change AoA for certain corners, without carrying the extra drag and imbalance around for the rest of the lap. Nowadays you can only change the flap a couple of times over the entire race, so you can't make extreme flap angle changes that would reward in a couple of corners while being punished for the rest of the lap. Flap angle is mostly changed nowadays to readjust for fuel load that drops across the race.

[firasf1dream]

ok I see thank you turbof1, so we can say that, usually the 2 upper flaps will be changed from race to race with less angle or more angle of attack and camber, and not changed like it used to be in 2009 where i can say from looking at some ferrari close pictures that the upper flap will have some sort of slot in the endplate (which contain a servo), and when the driver make the command from the steering wheel the servo will push the flap up or down to make a different angle of attack

Yes. In 2009 and 2010 drivers were allowed to change flap angle a few times each lap (active aerodynamics), meaning they could specifically change AoA for certain corners, without carrying the extra drag and imbalance around for the rest of the lap. Nowadays you can only change the flap a couple of times over the entire race, so you can't make extreme flap angle changes that would reward in a couple of corners while being punished for the rest of the lap. Flap angle is mostly changed nowadays to readjust for fuel load that drops across the race.

ah ok i see, well i've never read any technical regulations after 2012, i just read 2009, 2011, 2012, i don't really have ideas about dimensions and rules of new changes but i just make some conclusions from pictures, what i can tell is that the thing that has never really made a change is the cockpit

[turbof1]

ok I see thank you turbof1, so we can say that, usually the 2 upper flaps will be changed from race to race with less angle or more angle of attack and camber, and not changed like it used to be in 2009 where i can say from looking at some ferrari close pictures that the upper flap will have some sort of slot in the endplate (which contain a servo), and when the driver make the command from the steering wheel the servo will push the flap up or down to make a different angle of attack

Yes. In 2009 and 2010 drivers were allowed to change flap angle a few times each lap (active aerodynamics), meaning they could specifically change AoA for certain corners, without carrying the extra drag and imbalance around for the rest of the lap. Nowadays you can only change the flap a couple of times over the entire race, so you can't make extreme flap angle changes that would reward in a couple of corners while being punished for the rest of the lap. Flap angle is mostly changed nowadays to readjust for fuel load that drops across the race.

ah ok i see, well i've never read any technical regulations after 2012, i just read 2009, 2011, 2012, i don't really have ideas about dimensions and rules of new changes but i just make some conclusions from pictures, what i can tell is that the thing that has never really made a change is the cockpit

Almost true! The protection on the side of the driver's head has gotten bigger last year. Good conclusions none the less. The adjustable front flap might actually have been in the sporting regulations.