Sauber C36 Ferrari

[roon]

I wonder if the vortex it generates get pulled under the sidepod, or follows the topside. While we can think about flow attachment in this context, I also think about the benefit of creating stable, predictable flow structures surrounding the car. While this consumes energy & creates drag, the consistent shapes induced in the flow field should help downstream devices operate more predictably.

[bhall II]

I'm almost positive that such flow makes its way underneath the sidepod a bit like this...





Otherwise, I can't think of a compelling reason to maintain an attached boundary layer upon the top of the sidepod.

[henra]

It's function seems to be very similar to the similar winglets that teams put on the leading edge of the sidepod.

Hmm, I could imagine that it's rather to reduce spillage of the air flow over the side of the sidepods (which you can see nicely on the McLaren FlowViz pic) by creating a low pressure area along the engine cover and thus the center of the car.

[henra]

I'm almost positive that such flow makes its way underneath the sidepod a bit like this...
Otherwise, I can't think of a compelling reason to maintain an attached boundary layer upon the top of the sidepod.

My idea would be that they try to prevent this. A high energy vortex would create a low pressure area and thereby could serve to keep the airflow away from the sidepod edges.

[roon]

I'm almost positive that such flow makes its way underneath the sidepod a bit like this...

http://i.imgur.com/gkRjVBb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/a06Xoop.jpg

Otherwise, I can't think of a compelling reason to maintain an attached boundary layer upon the top of the sidepod.

And if not that then maybe it aids in yaw situations—flow attachment on the leeward side.

[bhall II]

I'm almost positive that such flow makes its way underneath the sidepod a bit like this...
Otherwise, I can't think of a compelling reason to maintain an attached boundary layer upon the top of the sidepod.

My idea would be that they try to prevent this. A high energy vortex would create a low pressure area and thereby could serve to keep the airflow away from the sidepod edges.

Why would you want a low pressure area on top of anything? That's lift.

[henra]

Why would you want a low pressure area on top of anything? That's lift.

When air spills over the sides of the sidepods and is accelerated downward this creates lift. (Newtonian Lift Formula). If you manage to keep the airflow from being accelerated downward and keep it stuck to the center part of the car which doesn't slope downward that much this should reduce lift. On the other hand you are obviously right the vortex itself would create some lift. Would bei interesting to see how that balances out.

[bhall II]

I don't see how it would create lift until such air flow leaves the body as downwash.

[Just_a_fan]

As others have implied, I think the idea is to move air flow around the sidepods, where it's more useful, instead of over the sidepods, where it would likely contribute to lift. Sauber just seems to be giving it some help downstream.

http://i.imgur.com/V71kiQt.jpg

To add to this, they are vortex generators, the vortex helps the flow to follow the sharp curves of the bodywork with less separation.

Sauber worked out that they need one up there to delay flow separation so placed one there, pretty simple. Nice detail all the same.

That's my view of it. The flow over the side pods will separate and dump turbulent junk in to the space below the rear wing. By using vortices they keep the flow attached around the side pods and keep the flow nice and clean to the rear end.

[Just_a_fan]

Why would you want a low pressure area on top of anything? That's lift.

When air spills over the sides of the sidepods and is accelerated downward this creates lift. (Newtonian Lift Formula). If you manage to keep the airflow from being accelerated downward and keep it stuck to the center part of the car which doesn't slope downward that much this should reduce lift. On the other hand you are obviously right the vortex itself would create some lift. Would bei interesting to see how that balances out.

A little bit of lift here would be acceptable if the overall result is a net increase in downforce (or rather L/D) on the car. Trading off is part of any design process.

[dren]

That's my guess as well. The bat wing used under the nose on some cars generates lift, for its resulting vortexes.

[motobaleno]

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/saube ... te-875894/

Also the C36 has an hightened floor in front of the sidepods.
differently from many others, I like this car more than the new renault

[bhall II]

Since a mild consensus seems to be brewing around something I sorta said, I just wanna clarify: I see zero reason to take steps to actively maintain laminar boundary layer flow over the sidepod.

If your car is somehow saddled with an adverse pressure gradient in the Coke bottle area, let alone one that's significant enough to cause separation, then your car has issues that are well beyond the control of mere vortex generators.



The whole point of tapered bodywork is to create a favorable pressure gradient that accelerates air flow to the rear of the car.

[dren]

Just follow the gold stripes. Nice jesus piece, btw.

[bhall II]

Nope.

For anyone, if you were a packet of air at the front of the sidepod, what would your pathline look like as you moved aft, and why?



A hint (again)...