Toro Rosso STR12 Renault

[Holm86]

I'm wondering if this suspension geometry is a result of the wider track?

To me it looks like it gives negative camber on the outside wheel when turning, and positive camber on the inside wheel, making the wheels "lean" into the corners.

[roon]

One of the better looking cars for 2017.

The sidepod inlet bulges forward at its base:



External front suspension pivot:



Widely spaced cameras:



Rear wheels seems to lack winglets:



Monkey seat looks like it's designed to capture as much exhaust flow as possible.

[Vladimir]

Well done TR =D> Seems thay did it again. Great car.

[Holm86]

https://i.imgur.com/RWYeT8Ah.jpg

Monkey seat looks like it's designed to capture as much exhaust flow as possible.

Exactly, as I wrote in the Ferrari thread, the increased distance (because of the rear wing being moved back) between the exhaust exit, and the monkey seat allows for blowing the monkey seat much more.

[THRAK]

ToroRosso intuiting a similar front suspension layout as Mercedes' one shows another time they are top level at innovation. In the last years they set so many trends (exhaust-through RW pylon, RW endplates, huge multifonctional airscope way before Merc did, FW cascade design... ). I bet the sidepods inlets are another smart way of making profit of the new regulations (as Ferrari did, but in a totally different fashion). Add the drastic reduction of the sidepods exits compared to previous racers, and here we have a very neat and impressive car. =D>

[zioture]

Full Gallery http://www.newsf1.it/news-f1-nuova-toro ... ive-str12/

[clipsy1H]

I don't know why you guys are so happy, just about the paint job? Yeah car looks very nice, perfect color combination but what about the car itself?
Ok, Mercedes nose (thank God) and suspension with undercut sidepods but to me it's weak, i expected more from them .

[cmF1]

I don't know why you guys are so happy, just about the paint job? Yeah car looks very nice, perfect color combination but what about the car itself?
Ok, Mercedes nose (thank God) and suspension with undercut sidepods but to me it's weak, i expected more from them .

Unfortunately guns and firework cannons aren't allowed in the regulations. Let's just wait until testing starts before saying it looks weak.

[clipsy1H]

yeah you're right ! but still i think they can do more but nevermind it's a beautiful looking car.

[Tim.Wright]

I'm wondering if this suspension geometry is a result of the wider track?

To me it looks like it gives negative camber on the outside wheel when turning, and positive camber on the inside wheel, making the wheels "lean" into the corners.

The angle you can somewhat imply from the upper ball joint is kingpin inclination (kpi) angle and is produces the opposite effect of what you say - i.e. positive camber on the outer wheel. So it's definitely not done for that reason. If you want negative camber angle on the outer wheel you need to minimise the kpi and increase the caster angle.

I think I have a reasonable understanding of why Mercedes and Toro Rosso have the long spindle type upright. Basically they have wanted to move both the lower suspension arm up as high as possible. Look at the picture below and you can see it enters the wheel ABOVE the wheel centre.


With the lower arm up so high, the upper arm had to follow it for structural reasons in order to keep the camber stiffness up (which is probably more critical with the wider tyres).

[Holm86]

I'm wondering if this suspension geometry is a result of the wider track?

To me it looks like it gives negative camber on the outside wheel when turning, and positive camber on the inside wheel, making the wheels "lean" into the corners.

The angle you can somewhat imply from the upper ball joint is kingpin inclination (kpi) angle and is produces the opposite effect of what you say - i.e. positive camber on the outer wheel. So it's definitely not done for that reason. If you want negative camber angle on the outer wheel you need to minimise the kpi and increase the caster angle.

I think I have a reasonable understanding of why Mercedes and Toro Rosso have the long spindle type upright. Basically they have wanted to move both the lower suspension arm up as high as possible. Look at the picture below and you can see it enters the wheel ABOVE the wheel centre.
http://i63.tinypic.com/2zqzvhi.jpg

With the lower arm up so high, the upper arm had to follow it for structural reasons in order to keep the camber stiffness up (which is probably more critical with the wider tyres).

No, the top point is mounted behind the lower point, this is positive caster angle, and that does increase negative camber when turning.
You achieve higher KPI by having the top mount further inward than the lower mounting point. That would also make to increase the KPI to reduce the scrubbing of the new wider tires ...

[NathanOlder]

So why do they want both wishbones so high !

[Tim.Wright]

No, the top point is mounted behind the lower point, this is positive caster angle, and that does increase negative camber when turning.
You achieve higher KPI by having the top mount further inward than the lower mounting point. That would also make to increase the KPI to reduce the scrubbing of the new wider tires ...

That's exactly that I said:

If you want negative camber angle on the outer wheel you need to minimise the kpi and increase the caster angle.

KPI does the opposite of caster in terms of camber angle though.

[PhillipM]

Less tyre scrub, given the wider tyres might be more of an issue.

[roon]

I'm wondering if this suspension geometry is a result of the wider track?

To me it looks like it gives negative camber on the outside wheel when turning, and positive camber on the inside wheel, making the wheels "lean" into the corners.

The angle you can somewhat imply from the upper ball joint is kingpin inclination (kpi) angle and is produces the opposite effect of what you say - i.e. positive camber on the outer wheel. So it's definitely not done for that reason. If you want negative camber angle on the outer wheel you need to minimise the kpi and increase the caster angle.

I think I have a reasonable understanding of why Mercedes and Toro Rosso have the long spindle type upright. Basically they have wanted to move both the lower suspension arm up as high as possible. Look at the picture below and you can see it enters the wheel ABOVE the wheel centre.
http://i63.tinypic.com/2zqzvhi.jpg

With the lower arm up so high, the upper arm had to follow it for structural reasons in order to keep the camber stiffness up (which is probably more critical with the wider tyres).

The steering arm is intersecting above centerline. Lower control arm seems to intersect around centerline, which has been a standard position for the past few years. I think you're right about camber stiffness—wider, heavier wheels benefitting from a taller upright/kingpin height.

Now how far inside the wheel is the pivot on the lower arm?