Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Thunder]

Taken from the MCL32 Thread:

Do the smart People in here also see a Restrictor in the Exhaust? If yes, what yould it be for? Is it the same as last Year with the RW Pylon Mounted through the Eshaust that they actually don't want that big of an exhaust Pipe diameter?

[Jef Patat]

Since you moved your question, I move my not:

I think it might be an expansion at a certain point or a restriction

[the EDGE]

Those circumstances (G forces) simply can't be simulated, not even on the best dyno. But they can be predicted. Although it's possible they are trying something new...

I wonder to what extent this is true. For impulse forces I can agree, although I do not know to what level. But I have the impression the oil tank is not functioning correctly due to cornering forces, those should be simulatable at the dyno.

You can beleive it is true. Although I can't say what percent is simulable, cornering G forces are not (yet) simulable. Ex. if you want to simulate 4G trough a corner for let's say 5 seconds, you need to accelerate the whole car with 4G for 5 seconds. You would need a dyno size of a football field if not bigger. Chassis tensions as well as curbs and vibrations can be simulated perfectly, but not full G forces, and the fluids simulations are a pain in the arse.

Could you not just run the engine on a Engine Centrifuge, a bit like what they do with astronauts on a Human Centrifuge?, would be rather cheap and simple to build I would a thought

[FW17]

Guess changing from a simple tank to a more complex shape has done Honda in
Copying the Merc engine seems to be an absolute can of worms

[ziggy]

I wonder to what extent this is true. For impulse forces I can agree, although I do not know to what level. But I have the impression the oil tank is not functioning correctly due to cornering forces, those should be simulatable at the dyno.

You can beleive it is true. Although I can't say what percent is simulable, cornering G forces are not (yet) simulable. Ex. if you want to simulate 4G trough a corner for let's say 5 seconds, you need to accelerate the whole car with 4G for 5 seconds. You would need a dyno size of a football field if not bigger. Chassis tensions as well as curbs and vibrations can be simulated perfectly, but not full G forces, and the fluids simulations are a pain in the arse.

Could you not just run the engine on a Engine Centrifuge, a bit like what they do with astronauts on a Human Centrifuge?, would be rather cheap and simple to build I would a thought

Well I guess you could, but I didn't see such thing yet. The big problem is that we don't know for sure what's going on.

EDIT: Seems like Porsche ran into same problems. Engine Oil Sump Test Rig:

[the EDGE]

You can beleive it is true. Although I can't say what percent is simulable, cornering G forces are not (yet) simulable. Ex. if you want to simulate 4G trough a corner for let's say 5 seconds, you need to accelerate the whole car with 4G for 5 seconds. You would need a dyno size of a football field if not bigger. Chassis tensions as well as curbs and vibrations can be simulated perfectly, but not full G forces, and the fluids simulations are a pain in the arse.

Could you not just run the engine on a Engine Centrifuge, a bit like what they do with astronauts on a Human Centrifuge?, would be rather cheap and simple to build I would a thought

Well I guess you could, but I didn't see such thing yet. The big problem is that we don't know for sure what's going on.

EDIT: Seems like Porsche ran into same problems. Engine Oil Sump Test Rig:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc

It's a pity the g-forces are a lot less on the 911, or I guess Honda may of gone a knocking... cool video though, thoroughly enjoyed watching it

[OviJohn]

Anyone could explain whats this "patch" for? (Sensors!?)

https://twitter.com/piusgasso/status/83 ... 76/photo/1

[GoranF1]

A member of this forum @joseki who is on track says engine(when runing) sounds alot better than last year...but he says engine is almost all the time detuned alot....says light on rear crash structure is on at half of main straight.

[piast9]

EDIT: Seems like Porsche ran into same problems. Engine Oil Sump Test Rig:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv53RbvgfGc

With such system you are limited to 1g acceleration. Probably F1 cars reach that while pulling into the pits.

[GoranF1]

So Honda monday problem

-Design of oil tank(interior)
-Inside the tank baffels do not pick up oil at high G as they should, cousing pressure drop.
-At the circuit only a small fix is possible
-Honda saw problem during film day
-Hasegawa says problem not big, can be fixed

[BosF1]

So Honda monday problem

-Design of oil tank(interior)
-Inside the tank baffels do not pick up oil at high G as they should, cousing pressure drop.
-At the circuit only a small fix is possible
-Honda saw problem during film day
-Hasegawa says problem not big, can be fixed

By any means, did he mention when the problem is going to be fixed? (E.g. this week or next week?)

[GoranF1]

So Honda monday problem

-Design of oil tank(interior)
-Inside the tank baffels do not pick up oil at high G as they should, cousing pressure drop.
-At the circuit only a small fix is possible
-Honda saw problem during film day
-Hasegawa says problem not big, can be fixed

By any means, did he mention when the problem is going to be fixed? (E.g. this week or next week?)

No....i think this week only a small/part fix

[godlameroso]

Think of it this way, they're 5 seconds off the pace, but they're running de-tuned, lifting to avoid oil starvation, and gentle on left hand turns. Imagine what will happen when they're allowed to brake as late as they dare, toss it into turns without having to worry about oil starvation from the g forces, and run the engine at full tilt because you're not going to worry about inadequate oil pressure spinning a main bearing. Imagine if they are using a fork and blade setup like was discussed, oil pressure would be absolutely critical.

I understand people's frustration, but sometimes these things happen, and as was stated, can be fixed. Honda and McLaren can implement a fix if they work together, and once they do you'll see your worries and frustrations, while appreciated(as it shows that you are fans) is probably not yet warranted at the moment. Complain if they waste the whole test, not if the test exposes weaknesses that can be rectified before the season starts. There's no points until late March.

Maybe this doesn't belong here, but what if this is just part of the strategy, not give away anything too soon, if people write McLaren off, they won't pay attention to them.

[Mansell89]

You can't judge their performance or pace at all- McLaren are helpless here really until Honda have the fix.

It's just a real nightmare for them.

[Del Boy]

So Honda monday problem

-Design of oil tank(interior)
-Inside the tank baffels do not pick up oil at high G as they should, cousing pressure drop.
-At the circuit only a small fix is possible
-Honda saw problem during film day
-Hasegawa says problem not big, can be fixed

Sorry Goran what is an Interior oil tank? Is this where oil collects after lubricating/cooling

In a fully pressurised (no splash lubrication) ICE there is a scavenge system (pump & collection area) and an oil tank with a pressurisation pump to feed the engine, with an oil cooler between the 2 systems.