W wing rumours

[Carlos]

...and the stewards at Indy '72 banned the setup which was replaced with conventional wings, then maybe a little crossover to F1 design?

The Brabhams had that triangle monocoque style from 73 to about 78, possible I guess. http://www.research-racing.de/bt46-3.htm

[Ogami musashi]

Well, it did - high AOA performance of S-37 was quite impressive, but vibrations were too high at transonic speeds.

In case of F1 I remember that F399 had FSW arrangement of the flap.

The problems of vibrations in relation with speed were different from the vortex problems.
The speed related drag and wing flapping was due to the divergence of a FSW.

The vortex developed at low speed on the whole envelope.

Actually the AOA performance of the plane were not so good, they achieved 45° (which is today no something rare) a the expense of huge canards that has to flip all over the time to compensate for the negative stability of the plane while providing interaction with the flows on the wing.

The prototype of S-37 was 5g limited, and the problems on the wing made SDB forced to add titanium on the wing that represented 1 more ton on this already really fat bird.


The X-29 program encountered some analog problems and in final ended up with more drag (especially at AOA which was precisely were the FSW should have been better) than a classical wing.


Now, replaced in F1 the problem of divergence may appear and prevent for passive flexing to diminish drag.

[Giblet]

The thing about racing cars using an FSW concept, is the cars don't go 500+mph.

The dynamics of an FSW may be more feasible at lower speeds, up to 200mph.

[GTO]

What if the W shape of rear wing is formed in plan view not elevation. If the rear wheel cline is max forward point allowed for any part of rear wing, this line would limit the 3 points of forward swept W shape. The rear edge of wing could remain straight as they now do. Hope my description makes sense.

[timbo]

2Ogami Musasi. Well, I still think AOA capabilities were quite good - most planes that achive higher AOA use thrust-vectoring. However S-37 was not very successful projecy of course...

On the W wing, I read that Ferrari and later Macca used rear wings that would stall at higher speeds which would cut downforce and drag. I think that rumored wings are planned to achive this. Now what I don't understand is how wing is supposed to stall at higher speeds? Because of more turbulence?

[vyselegend]

Sorry if I'm totally out of the game, but they didn't said the W shape was vertical, maybe it's both planes of the wing forming a vague W from an upper view (but in the limits of the endplates's lenght of course).

[GTO]

Whatever design they may produce will be interesing to see, perhaps mainly to draw attention to car & sponsors, but I can't believe it will produce anywhere near 0.6 sec. improvement in lap time. It could be another walrus tusk job.

[mx_tifoso]

Whatever design they may produce will be interesing to see, perhaps mainly to draw attention to car & sponsors,...

Renault needs to get the money for Alonso's salary out of somewhere don't you think!

What better than to spread positive rumours about themselves, and the supposed improvement of .6 secs in lap times. That will surely get people talking.

[GTO]

Yes mx_tifosi, that's how I see this scam being developed by Williams & Renault. [-X
They know their car is not going to contend for race wins or battle for championship, so they devise this new wing design to draw media & fan attention away from race leading cars. =D>
I remember the Williams walrus nose did generate quite a bit of news sensation.

[manchild]

Yes mx_tifosi, that's how I see this scam being developed by Williams & Renault. [-X
They know their car is not going to contend for race wins or battle for championship, so they devise this new wing design to draw media & fan attention away from race leading cars. =D>
I remember the Williams walrus nose did generate quite a bit of news sensation.

I remember Ferrari doing the same thing from 1980 till 2000

[Giblet]

I don't know if they would say it helps so much if it didn't, since if it's a dog of a wing, they will just look dumb and lose some credibility to their sponsors.

[axle]

Williams don't do look at me press releases...that's why it's only a rumour - it could all be media based hogwash. The Walrus was just rolled out...All I recall them saying is that they'd tried it in the wind tunnel and had some interesting results which led them to try it for real.

Being the eternal Williams fan that I am I always prey they'll come up with something spectacular to get them back in front.

Anyway as said this is a thought exercise so any more sketches no matter what your drawing ability are always fun. Discussing concepts etc...like the nose

[manchild]

[teecof1fan]

A picture says a thousand words, Manchild! On a not entirely related note, is there much difference between mounting your rear wing on the endplates (BMW,Honda) v pylons (Renault, McLaren, Ferrari etc.)?? Do the pylons have any aero effect? Or does the wing-mounting decision have more to do with the concept of the car as a whole? Thanks in advance, and if it's been discussed in another thread a link would be appreciated!

[jaho101]

That's such a freakin' cool car, despite how obsolete the aerodynamic thought is.
EDIT: Like seriously, the more I look at it the more it seems like its from the future.