Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[KingHamilton01]

Well they made it to the end guys. Both engines. The speed was embarassing though. Got totally mugged by a Renault. I really don't want to know what it's gonna be like on that Shanghai back straight!

don't know why everyone read's into that one so much, he was told not to meddle with ricciardo as he was 2 lap's down so you will probably find he lifted off to let him pass.

[63l8qrrfy6]

You mean coming off on the compressor inlet pointing down and to the right?

That's the one. I think I can see the hydraulic lines and the position sensor. Since VGT is not allowed and throttle is after compressor I can t think of anything else other than guide vanes.

Me thinks that's a blow off/relief valve.

Looks like the Honda engine has the same lack of electric power that plagued them in 2015. The McLaren chassis broke instead of the engine though which I found ironic.

I don't think so - the valve would have to be after the diffuser so that you don't have a long-ish open ended pipe post-compressor. That actuator clearly does something at the inlet and it looks an awful lot like this.

[godlameroso]

I guess the answer to that depends on if the engine is throttled. If it's not, then putting an electronic relief valve to act as a throttle would make some sense. But your idea is interesting as well.

[loner]

you guys better be patient for the last spec of this engine iirc spec 1.1 like wazari said perhaps its for the last 5 races.
every thing is detuned currently

[godlameroso]

You mean we have to wait until Suzuka for the engine to get sorted out? That's forever from now, tell me at least some progress can be made so something can be salvaged of this year. I'll take a incrementally improving car until a big relative breakthrough around Suzuka.

[loner]

they changed the whole layout and implemented the pre ignition its very big task
pride is a huge sin , that had to be done last year or even from the start however they gained massive knowledge
in those past 2 years they will recover fast this time as long the compressor is out of the veeeeee

[etusch]

May be they jump up with one update like last years Renault may be they struggle whole season

[glenntws]

Regarding the picture of the "inlet area": The gold mantled carbon pipe is the outlet of the compressor. The actuator in front of the compressor has to be a regulator for vairbale vane geometry. The lack of any additional piping and the fact, that you can see a pivoting-mechanism around the pipe indicates that.

I'm not a big expert in this area and as far as I know, variable Stators have only come in effective use in axial compressors, but it could be possible that the improve end pressure in lower revs to overcome a part of the turbo-lag by slowing down the air and induce a higher pressure, which isn't so good for efficiency, but it definetly improves power in lower massflow areas and by that reduces the need for ERS power.

Bleeding air out for throttle contorl is probably the worst thing you could do, because you loose a s**t-ton of energy. Instead, they could reduce throttle usage by lowering MGU-H Speeds drastically to achieve high back pressure and low intake pressure.

I don't think a new spec needs to wait till Suzuka. At least in spain they will have a revised head, included with other improvements. At least that's what I think. Together with that, they could also change the block a bit to stop the vibrations.

After the first race i definetly have to say that it was better than expected. Power seemed not so high but that's pasrtly because of DRS and other things. The engine does have loads of potential if it's really locked down. Currently we should have power difference of no more than 70-80HP to Merc, probably even less. When having no lock-downs or don't need to care about the vibrations anymore, we should have a power difference of no more then maybe a few HP (I actually think it will be on par with MB then but that's pretty optimistic)

[damager21]

In pre-season testing we saw huge unreliability problems.

Given the improved reliability at the cost of lack of pace and heavy fuel saving, I feel Honda removed TJI from the Australia spec. They will be spending more time now to make it workable in the next engine at Monaco.

[Tommy Cookers]

[quote=glenntws post_id=687330 time=1490546212 user_id=36928]
Regarding the picture of the "inlet area": The gold mantled carbon pipe is the outlet of the compressor. The actuator in front of the compressor has to be a regulator for vairbale vane geometry.......
I'm not a big expert in this area and as far as I know, variable Stators have only come in effective use in axial compressors, but it could be possible that the improve end pressure in lower revs to overcome a part of the turbo-lag by slowing down the air and induce a higher pressure, which isn't so good for efficiency, but it definetly improves power in lower massflow areas and by that reduces the need for ERS power.
Bleeding air out for throttle contorl is probably the worst thing you could do, because you loose a s**t-ton of energy.....[/quote]

the V16 BRM was schemed with variable guide vane 'prewhirl' into its mechanically driven centrifugal 2 stage 5.7 bar compressor or, alternatively, interstage throttling

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7lV ... ge&f=false

[Andres125sx]

I don't know where Alonso gets the notion that the cars are more fun to drive when they're barely any faster?

That´s due to the new tires wich allow to push harder without melting them. He specifically said past seasons tires forced them to drive like small children and that was frustrating

[PlatinumZealot]

Regarding the picture of the "inlet area": The gold mantled carbon pipe is the outlet of the compressor. The actuator in front of the compressor has to be a regulator for vairbale vane geometry. The lack of any additional piping and the fact, that you can see a pivoting-mechanism around the pipe indicates that.

I'm not a big expert in this area and as far as I know, variable Stators have only come in effective use in axial compressors, but it could be possible that the improve end pressure in lower revs to overcome a part of the turbo-lag by slowing down the air and induce a higher pressure, which isn't so good for efficiency, but it definetly improves power in lower massflow areas and by that reduces the need for ERS power.

Nope variable stators are also widely used on centrifugal blowers and compressors. Even common ones.

I don't think variable geometry is allowed on the compressor though but I will have to check the wording of the rules to be sure.

[godlameroso]

Regarding the picture of the "inlet area": The gold mantled carbon pipe is the outlet of the compressor. The actuator in front of the compressor has to be a regulator for vairbale vane geometry. The lack of any additional piping and the fact, that you can see a pivoting-mechanism around the pipe indicates that.

I'm not a big expert in this area and as far as I know, variable Stators have only come in effective use in axial compressors, but it could be possible that the improve end pressure in lower revs to overcome a part of the turbo-lag by slowing down the air and induce a higher pressure, which isn't so good for efficiency, but it definetly improves power in lower massflow areas and by that reduces the need for ERS power.

Nope variable stators are also widely used on centrifugal blowers and compressors. Even common ones.

I don't think variable geometry is allowed on the compressor though but I will have to check the wording of the rules to be sure.

5.9.1 With the exception of devices needed for control of pressure charging systems, variable geometry exhaust systems are not permitted. No form of variable geometry turbine (VGT) or variable nozzle turbine (VNT) or any device to adjust the gas throat section at the inlet to the turbine wheel is permitted.

Seems that the VGT or VNT are not allowed on the exhaust turbine, but there is nothing mentioned regarding the compressor, other than it being a sole single stage compressor.

5.1.6 Pressure charging may only be effected by the use of a sole single stage compressor...

[PlatinumZealot]

Great work man.
Wow. So that is a real area to exploit! Granted it is only single digit efficiency gains but that is a lot over a race distance.

[ollandos]

after 2 years with race data and knowledge..honda prepare with 1 year work this pu from 2017 ... ..100%unacceptable situation ...for know they want 2 months for update...but there is no time ?..and how big step can be this update ?...the season its over from the start ...they must found over 120hp power and 100% reliability...