2017 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai 07-09 April

[Juzh]

Vettel has cried to call off a wet race many times. Max hasn't.

Many times? I remember Korea and he was first so I can see why he was asking to finish the race. Other times many drivers asked to finish the race because the visibility was next to 0.

Anyway how many "actual" wet races has Max done in F1? Last seasons wet races don´t even deserve to be described as wet races.

A bit OT perhaps but I think that Vettel does not really like wet races that much, remember when he crashed into Webbah under Safety Car conditions in Fuji, it left a scar on him probably. Also from last year I can remember that he spun at Silverstone and Brazil in the rain.

A biggest bunch of bullshit I've read in a while.
Alonso also spun in silverstone and brazil. Vettel had a few dominating wet races himself, and a few not so much. Pretty similar to every top driver on the grid.

[F1NAC]

Vettel has cried to call off a wet race many times. Max hasn't.

Many times? I remember Korea and he was first so I can see why he was asking to finish the race. Other times many drivers asked to finish the race because the visibility was next to 0.

Anyway how many "actual" wet races has Max done in F1? Last seasons wet races don´t even deserve to be described as wet races.

I cannot find the quotes anywhere, but Vettel did say "what are we doing here" in Malaysia 2012 wet race.

He still is one of those few drivers on the grid who can keep the car on the track and drive fast in wet. But I don't think he really desires such conditions.

you probably meant on Malaysia 2009. When there were red flag condition and he spun and stalled? But few moments after, race was stopped

[Andres125sx]

Now that the cars have much higher downforce numbers and the tires are wider, it should be reason enough for Charlie to stop being paranoid and let the TRUE WET races happen.

Actually, I´m expecting just the opposite. Main problems on wet races are aquaplanning and visibility. With wider tires aquaplanning is more prone to happen, and visibility will decrease as each tire is evacuating more water, thus increasing spray.

So I´m not even slightly optimistic about wet races this seasons

[WaikeCU]

Now that the cars have much higher downforce numbers and the tires are wider, it should be reason enough for Charlie to stop being paranoid and let the TRUE WET races happen.

Actually, I´m expecting just the opposite. Main problems on wet races are aquaplanning and visibility. With wider tires aquaplanning is more prone to happen, and visibility will decrease as each tire is evacuating more water, thus increasing spray.

So I´m not even slightly optimistic about wet races this seasons

Actually, if it's a monstrous to drive in normal dry weather, it would be even more monstrous to drive in the rain.

[Nickel]

Some of you are a bit brutal in your assessments. Fair to say none of us have driven an F1 car in the rain, yes?

In the olden days, drivers would push for races to be postponed/cancelled. The commercial rights holder just told them to get the hell in the car. Occasionally, drivers would pull out of races. Only the truly well established could get away with it without tanking their careers though.

I don't think it's right to say that drivers lobbying for cancellations in the wet is a new thing, or in any way related to some sort of generational difference. We're just more privy to it. I also don't think it's fair to say that they're somehow unworthy/cowardly for doing so. I bet it's terrifying to drive 300kph when you can't see.

[Vasconia]

Now that the cars have much higher downforce numbers and the tires are wider, it should be reason enough for Charlie to stop being paranoid and let the TRUE WET races happen.

Actually, I´m expecting just the opposite. Main problems on wet races are aquaplanning and visibility. With wider tires aquaplanning is more prone to happen, and visibility will decrease as each tire is evacuating more water, thus increasing spray.

So I´m not even slightly optimistic about wet races this seasons

Yes, I read exactly what you have said. Pirelli reminds me Honda, they had another chance to make a good work, and for some reason the result "could" be even worse. I was expecting good wet tyres and we may have even worse ones.

[PlatinumZealot]

Not denying that of course. But from what. Have seen in 2015 and 2016 vettel had been vocal on the radio about visbility and all that. And didn't max make short work of him in Silverstone (?) and Brazil?

[Juzh]

Verstappen made short work of the entire field ( - hamilton) in brazil, yet you're only singling out vettel here, lel ok.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Now that the cars have much higher downforce numbers and the tires are wider, it should be reason enough for Charlie to stop being paranoid and let the TRUE WET races happen.

Actually, I´m expecting just the opposite. Main problems on wet races are aquaplanning and visibility. With wider tires aquaplanning is more prone to happen, and visibility will decrease as each tire is evacuating more water, thus increasing spray.

Well, I think aquaplaning has direct relation with the grip that the tyres offer. Ex: Intermediate is more suseptible for aquaplaning than Full Wets. That still goes to the first point that I had mentioned in my first post that, PIRELLI did not do a good job of manufacturing the past generation (until last year) Full Wets. If the wider tyres offer better grip in dry, it also applies for wet too! It's a matter of how well the full wets are constructed.
As for visibility, of course the bigger tyres create bigger spray, but equally, they move out larger amount of water from the track than the past tyres did! That means, cars gain grip faster and as the larger spray would move the water out in larger quantity, the visibility increases lap after lap, as larger spray decreases the water from the track AND reduced water means reduced spray!

[Gothrek]

VES wins that one easily.

Why exactly?

Vettel has cried to call off a wet race many times. Max hasn't.

And how many F1 races has Max done in a car without mega downforce?

Vettel first victory & pole was Monza 2008 in the rain, with a Torro Rosso.
Also in 2008 he nearly robbed Hamilton of the WDC while overtaking him in the rain at Interlagos with a Torro Rosso. (Luckily there was Glock in the last corner for Hamilton)

Vettel has always been good in the rain, however he doesn't like the Pirelli tires in the rain. But this is the same for most drivers. Pirelli cannot make good full wets/intermediates.

[marvin78]

Pirelli road car tyres are terrible in the rain, also (used several of them). So maybe they don't understand, what a raintyre is.

[Vasconia]

Not denying that of course. But from what. Have seen in 2015 and 2016 vettel had been vocal on the radio about visbility and all that. And didn't max make short work of him in Silverstone (?) and Brazil?

Vettel has been very vocal about too many things in the last two seasons. I hope he will change that.

If I am not wrong Vettel got a penalti in Silverstone so Max started the race clearly ahead. And of course the RB had tones of downforce in comparsion to the Ferrari.

[Andres125sx]

Now that the cars have much higher downforce numbers and the tires are wider, it should be reason enough for Charlie to stop being paranoid and let the TRUE WET races happen.

Actually, I´m expecting just the opposite. Main problems on wet races are aquaplanning and visibility. With wider tires aquaplanning is more prone to happen, and visibility will decrease as each tire is evacuating more water, thus increasing spray.

Well, I think aquaplaning has direct relation with the grip that the tyres offer.

And I´m afraid you´re wrong. Grip and aquaplanning are not related. Aquaplanning happens when the tire threads (that´s the correct term for the wet tires channels in english?) can´t evacuate the water in front of the tire. If that happens then the tire can only go above that water, so there´s a water layer between the tire and tarmac, thus the grip suddenly go to zero.

Rubber grip only matters when there´s no aquaplanning, but it does not affect water evacuation of the tire. And obviously the wider the tire, more prone for aquaplanning it is

As for visibility, of course the bigger tyres create bigger spray, but equally, they move out larger amount of water from the track than the past tyres did! That means, cars gain grip faster and as the larger spray would move the water out in larger quantity, the visibility increases lap after lap, as larger spray decreases the water from the track AND reduced water means reduced spray!

If you assume a wet race only because it DID rain, yes, wider tires will dry up the track faster but, what if it´s persistent rain even if it´s light? Much more spray (25% more), and poorer visibility


IMHO wet tires should be much narrower than dry tires, I even opened a thread some time ago asking about wet tires problems, and the general consensus was aquaplanning is also caused by cars floor, not only the tires, but at least the spray and visibility problem would be drastically reduced

Maybe narrower but much higher to move the whole car up... but that would require gearbox changes wich is banned


Edit: found the thread -> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24003&hilit

[dans79]

"Italian 'culture' is preventing Ferrari from building quick F1 cars"

Really Its more like senior executives at Ferrari who happen to be Italian are the problem. They are always in a we must win next year mindset. When they don't win they fall into a lets fire everyone and start over mindset.

[Sieper]

Verstappen made short work of the entire field ( - hamilton) in brazil, yet you're only singling out vettel here, lel ok.

- This pre race, wet edition of my driver is the bestest is more absurd than usual. What whole field? Ricciardo and keep championship lead mode Rosberg? BTW wasn't Brazil the race where Vettel 'made short work of' Alonso, any conclusions about talent from that?

- They all get great without any competition and with the best cars and lose the talent in the opposite circumstances. Why didn't MV at least bother slow Raikkonen in Aus? It wasn't this 1 out of 40 race I guess.

- As for tyres my guess is that the claim that Pirelli tyres are bad is as correct as "Italian 'culture' is preventing Ferrari from building quick F1 cars" or "only Renault engine is preventing RB from winning". Two good things about '17 season .

Only Ricci and Ros? Bother to threat Kimi??