Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[diffuser]

im curious how much time do we think Honda will gain once they have sorted out there issues? Will it be a knock on effect with the TJI? as in will the performance and Fuel consumption efficiency improve? I am not an expert just curious to see if anyone can gauge what McLaren can gain in terms of laptime.

In my opinion,it is impossible to say with any accuracy. More power allows you to run more downforce which makes the chassis Perform better. It may also bring to forefront deficiencies in the chassis which prevent you from taking advantage of all that extra power as quickly as one would like and in as many areas around the track you'd like.

I dont think we will see Mclaren running any extra downforce, they appear on face value to be running similar drag levels to the other teams.

The Honda engine might be a little bit down on where it finished last year but it isnt 3 seconds off the pace. I wouldn't expect to see that much improvement in the Mclaren lap times due to Honda improvements, I would be surprised if they are losing a second a lap (qualy) due to the PU.

I also haven't seen any claims that the vibrations are caused by det. If this was the case I think we would be seeing engines fail along time before we get to any worries about resonance in the gearbox.

I'm not getting into this PU vs Chassis debate. I just said it is impossible to tell how much faster we'll get. There is a knock on effect on how much power you have and how you setup the car.

[godlameroso]

Oh there is a lot of power that engine could be making but isn't. With the chassis and engine working as they should there is at least 2 seconds per lap in hand. The deficit is currently about 3 seconds.

[ncassi22]

Does anyone know the date the autosport premium interview was conducted?

[wuzak]

MCL32 has undergone significant weight reduction, its weight well below the minimum weight of 728kg. You get more free ballast for that amount so that's good in optimizing weight balance and cog, but when they actually weighed the assembled car, it was lighter than expected to the extent that there was concern that there would be shortage of ballast. (info in the article)

I really had to laugh about this particular statement! I've read an article about Perez having to lose weight after the test sessions because FI found out its car was too heavy http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3508 ... ight-loss/.

And here McLaren-Honda states their car is so light they were worried about shortage of ballast
Talking about contrast!

Just shows the difference in philosophy between Honda and Mercedes and that a switch mid-season would be stupid for McLaren.

Or it might show that McLaren have better resources to run down every ounce on their car.

[dren]

MCL32 has undergone significant weight reduction, its weight well below the minimum weight of 728kg. You get more free ballast for that amount so that's good in optimizing weight balance and cog, but when they actually weighed the assembled car, it was lighter than expected to the extent that there was concern that there would be shortage of ballast. (info in the article)

I really had to laugh about this particular statement! I've read an article about Perez having to lose weight after the test sessions because FI found out its car was too heavy http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3508 ... ight-loss/.

And here McLaren-Honda states their car is so light they were worried about shortage of ballast
Talking about contrast!

Mclaren can blame Honda's 10kg lighter PU for that 'problem'.

[Craigy]

Mclaren can blame Honda's 10kg lighter PU for that 'problem'.

We don't know how heavy any of the power units are or were.
It's quite feasible that the Honda was overweight last year, and still is this year, given the lack of public info about the weights of any of the engines. The same is true of all of them.

Lowering the weight is of course good, but without context we simply don't know if it's competitive or not in this regard.

[GoranF1]

There was more than one rumor or report saying MCL32 is the lightes car out there.

[Craigy]

There was more than one rumor or report saying MCL32 is the lightes car out there.

This is the Honda PU thread.

[godlameroso]

Speaking of power unit, if they're having trouble with the pre-chamber working at a certiain rev range, can it be possible to have a variable geometry pre-chamber to adjust the volume at certain RPM ranges, to maybe mitigate the combustion instability?

[tcooper27]

Mclaren can blame Honda's 10kg lighter PU for that 'problem'.

We don't know how heavy any of the power units are or were.
It's quite feasible that the Honda was overweight last year, and still is this year, given the lack of public info about the weights of any of the engines. The same is true of all of them.

Lowering the weight is of course good, but without context we simply don't know if it's competitive or not in this regard.

Given that Honda previously had the smallest PU on the grid it's hard to imagine it was "overweight".

[roon]

Speaking of power unit, if they're having trouble with the pre-chamber working at a certiain rev range, can it be possible to have a variable geometry pre-chamber to adjust the volume at certain RPM ranges, to maybe mitigate the combustion instability?

Should be able to. I proposed such an idea here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9259&p=674249&hilit ... le#p674249



Combustion chamber volume is not regulated. Only maximum compression ratio & swept cylinder volume.

[godlameroso]

Speaking of power unit, if they're having trouble with the pre-chamber working at a certiain rev range, can it be possible to have a variable geometry pre-chamber to adjust the volume at certain RPM ranges, to maybe mitigate the combustion instability?

Should be able to. I proposed such an idea here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9259&p=674249&hilit ... le#p674249

https://i.imgur.com/Sa0o4SMh.jpg

Combustion chamber volume is not regulated. Only maximum compression ratio & swept cylinder volume.

I remember that! Would it be driven off oil pressure? Also how would the injector provide fuel to not just the pre-chamber but the main chamber as well?

From what I can tell from stuff I've seen and read, the injector has to introduce fuel at least twice, once on the intake stroke, for the main chamber mixture, and then again on the compression stroke for the pre-chamber, and everything has to fire before TDC.

Having thought about it, perhaps the vacuum created by the piston on the intake stroke pulls the mixture into the cylinder.

[etusch]

Speaking of power unit, if they're having trouble with the pre-chamber working at a certiain rev range, can it be possible to have a variable geometry pre-chamber to adjust the volume at certain RPM ranges, to maybe mitigate the combustion instability?

Should be able to. I proposed such an idea here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9259&p=674249&hilit ... le#p674249

https://i.imgur.com/Sa0o4SMh.jpg

Combustion chamber volume is not regulated. Only maximum compression ratio & swept cylinder volume.

I remember that! Would it be driven off oil pressure? Also how would the injector provide fuel to not just the pre-chamber but the main chamber as well?

From what I can tell from stuff I've seen and read, the injector has to introduce fuel at least twice, once on the intake stroke, for the main chamber mixture, and then again on the compression stroke for the pre-chamber, and everything has to fire before TDC.

Having thought about it, perhaps the vacuum created by the piston on the intake stroke pulls the mixture into the cylinder.

But if injector is in the pre-chamber ( i think it is in that) how it can inject it to the main chamber and how it can just keep second injection in pre-chamber. İf it were not direct injection or double injector per cylinder it is easier.
Also I want to learn that isn't mixture in the main chamber enters to the pre-chamber during compression and cant it be ignited to ignite main chamber?

[Ericd735i]

From what I can tell from stuff I've seen and read, the injector has to introduce fuel at least twice, once on the intake stroke, for the main chamber mixture, and then again on the compression stroke for the pre-chamber, and everything has to fire before TDC.

Having thought about it, perhaps the vacuum created by the piston on the intake stroke pulls the mixture into the cylinder.
[/quote]

But if injector is in the pre-chamber ( i think it is in that) how it can inject it to the main chamber and how it can just keep second injection in pre-chamber. İf it were not direct injection or double injector per cylinder it is easier.
Also I want to learn that isn't mixture in the main chamber enters to the pre-chamber during compression and cant it be ignited to ignite main chamber?
[/quote]

I thought there were two injectors - a direct injector for the lean mix in the cylinder and a separate injector for the pre-chamber.

[loner]

you guys need not to worry about TJI
iam sure Honda people suffered a shocker when Andy Cowell mocked them for how limited they will be as long the compressor is in the V .. the layout changed the real problem get solved.. end of the story.