Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[dren]

We've heard Honda was able to cram all of the technology into this new PU that they wanted. It just isn't sorted yet. What do you think the technology is?

Combustion process?
Short crank?
Block integrated MGUH?
Advanced cylinder deactivation?

Any other thoughts?

[wuzak]

The other manufacturers followed the normal learnign curve when you develop a new concept, while Honda joined the race later, so they were forced to join a race where their competitors had an advantage in that learning curve

Or in other words, Honda was forced to make his learning curve stepper to catch up their competitors. Trying to reduce the normal learning process can easily bring unintended consequences and become a complete disaster. IMO that´s what happened in 2015, and also now in 2017. Hopefully 2017 PU problems can be solved and then they can really make a jump forward onto their learning curve, but we can´t ignore Honda learning process is being shorter and a lot more demanding when compared to the other manufacturers

They weren't forced to do anything.

As the others were further along the development curve Honda should have made bigger gains than the others, but they have gone backwards.

Ferrari and Renault made the big change in combustion design and pretty much nailed it straight away. Honda don't seem to have even got the basics sorted.

[GoranF1]

As i susspected before the Castrol deal is hurting Honda.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=19246246

[FW17]

The other manufacturers followed the normal learnign curve when you develop a new concept, while Honda joined the race later, so they were forced to join a race where their competitors had an advantage in that learning curve

Or in other words, Honda was forced to make his learning curve stepper to catch up their competitors. Trying to reduce the normal learning process can easily bring unintended consequences and become a complete disaster. IMO that´s what happened in 2015, and also now in 2017. Hopefully 2017 PU problems can be solved and then they can really make a jump forward onto their learning curve, but we can´t ignore Honda learning process is being shorter and a lot more demanding when compared to the other manufacturers

They weren't forced to do anything.

As the others were further along the development curve Honda should have made bigger gains than the others, but they have gone backwards.

Ferrari and Renault made the big change in combustion design and pretty much nailed it straight away. Honda don't seem to have even got the basics sorted.

Ferrari in 2015 focused all their efforts on the combustion process, they did split their resource on anything else. They worked on ERS only after combustion process was satisfactory and then went about in the optimization of both.

Merc pretty much the same in 2014, just that they had nailed either nailed tji at start if the year and worked on ERS optimization through the year.

Honda had no reason to split their resources in every area of the engine when they needed only to concentrate their efforts on combustion and moving the turbo out of the V

Honda wanted to prove to the world they are better than anyone else.

[proteus]

As i susspected before the Castrol deal is hurting Honda.

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=19246246

Is it possible they pumped some leftover Mobil oil into the car in the second day of Bahrain test to see if the engine works like its supposed to?

[harjan]

Well that guy contradicts himself quite a bit if you ask me, he says;

1. Engine was developed on Exxon Mobile products
2. Huge problems when they went to BP / Castrol
3. Now they're racing BP / Castrol so that's the reason for their problems
4. In testing they couldn't find any BP / Castrol trucks- so his guess is that it wasn't used in Barcelona testing.. So if that's correct- why was McLaren Honda suffering so much in testing?

[fellowhoodlums]

No logic to it. Renault use Castrol and Nico seems to be doing ok.....

[makecry]

No logic to it. Renault use Castrol and Nico seems to be doing ok.....

Renault using Castrol and doing ok has no relevance to Honda using them and doing ok. Completely different PUs.

[dren]

I heard Casterol is using a 50/50 blend of used 10w-30 and H2O for lubricants and fuel.

[Andres125sx]

The other manufacturers followed the normal learnign curve when you develop a new concept, while Honda joined the race later, so they were forced to join a race where their competitors had an advantage in that learning curve

Or in other words, Honda was forced to make his learning curve stepper to catch up their competitors. Trying to reduce the normal learning process can easily bring unintended consequences and become a complete disaster. IMO that´s what happened in 2015, and also now in 2017. Hopefully 2017 PU problems can be solved and then they can really make a jump forward onto their learning curve, but we can´t ignore Honda learning process is being shorter and a lot more demanding when compared to the other manufacturers

They weren't forced to do anything.

True, they only were forced to improve other´s manufacturers learning curve IF they want to be competitive, but they might have accepted the same learning curve, wich obviously would have put them 1 year late in development constantly.

In my eyes that´s the same as being forced to improve other´s manufacturers learning curve, no big manufacturer would enter a new category to be the dead last

As the others were further along the development curve Honda should have made bigger gains than the others

Exactly, but that´s easier to say than to do. How are they supposed to make bigger gains than the others?. Improving other´s learning curve

But since the others are Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault, not some garagist with limited resources but BIG companies investing comparable amounts of money if not even more, improving their learning curves might be a huge task, something wich may be imposible to do without running the risks of going for a new/radical/innovative design/concept

The other manufacturers never need to assume that sort of risk as their competitors were exactly at same point, so they could go for a more traditional developing curve without playing with danger. Well obviously all of them play with danger as designing a new PU for F1 can´t be easy, but I hope you get what I mean, if the rest had a difficult taks, Honda one is even more difficult as their target was improving the learning curve of the manufacturer wich made the best job in f1.

I´ll repeat that: Honda target was improving the learning curve of the F1 champion. That´s anything but easy, so IMHO saying they can´t even get the basics is way too harsh with Honda. If they can´t make 2017 PU competitive during the next allocations then I´m afraid I´ll have to agree with you, but not before they have some chance to solve the problems of their new, radical and risky PU

One thing is sure, they´ll be seen as heroes or villains, depending on the PU evolution and perfomance at the end of the season. That´s brave and I can only applaud it, specially in this era were no manufacturer dare to join F1 =D>

[godlameroso]

I heard Casterol is using a 50/50 blend of used 10w-30 and H2O for lubricants and fuel.

don't forget titanium.

[dren]

I heard Casterol is using a 50/50 blend of used 10w-30 and H2O for lubricants and fuel.

don't forget titanium.

That's to make the fuel weigh less, and make the engine stronger, for reliability reasons.

[GoranF1]

I heard Casterol is using a 50/50 blend of used 10w-30 and H2O for lubricants and fuel.

Casterol is not in F1.

[etusch]

No logic to it. Renault use Castrol and Nico seems to be doing ok.....

Renault using Castrol and doing ok has no relevance to Honda using them and doing ok. Completely different PUs.

I also don't think fuel cause this. There is any coment from any mclaren and Honda men. İf it were true it would be very easy for both mclaren and Honda side

[etusch]

The other manufacturers followed the normal learnign curve when you develop a new concept, while Honda joined the race later, so they were forced to join a race where their competitors had an advantage in that learning curve

Or in other words, Honda was forced to make his learning curve stepper to catch up their competitors. Trying to reduce the normal learning process can easily bring unintended consequences and become a complete disaster. IMO that´s what happened in 2015, and also now in 2017. Hopefully 2017 PU problems can be solved and then they can really make a jump forward onto their learning curve, but we can´t ignore Honda learning process is being shorter and a lot more demanding when compared to the other manufacturers

They weren't forced to do anything.

True, they only were forced to improve other´s manufacturers learning curve IF they want to be competitive, but they might have accepted the same learning curve, wich obviously would have put them 1 year late in development constantly.

In my eyes that´s the same as being forced to improve other´s manufacturers learning curve, no big manufacturer would enter a new category to be the dead last

As the others were further along the development curve Honda should have made bigger gains than the others

Exactly, but that´s easier to say than to do. How are they supposed to make bigger gains than the others?. Improving other´s learning curve

But since the others are Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault, not some garagist with limited resources but BIG companies investing comparable amounts of money if not even more, improving their learning curves might be a huge task, something wich may be imposible to do without running the risks of going for a new/radical/innovative design/concept

The other manufacturers never need to assume that sort of risk as their competitors were exactly at same point, so they could go for a more traditional developing curve without playing with danger. Well obviously all of them play with danger as designing a new PU for F1 can´t be easy, but I hope you get what I mean, if the rest had a difficult taks, Honda one is even more difficult as their target was improving the learning curve of the manufacturer wich made the best job in f1.

I´ll repeat that: Honda target was improving the learning curve of the F1 champion. That´s anything but easy, so IMHO saying they can´t even get the basics is way too harsh with Honda. If they can´t make 2017 PU competitive during the next allocations then I´m afraid I´ll have to agree with you, but not before they have some chance to solve the problems of their new, radical and risky PU

One thing is sure, they´ll be seen as heroes or villains, depending on the PU evolution and perfomance at the end of the season. That´s brave and I can only applaud it, specially in this era were no manufacturer dare to join F1 =D>

With an autistic approach like Honda and in the same time restriction with Honda, I am sure any other manufacturers can not do an engine which same level with this Honda engine