The "Shield" cockpit protection device - 2017 evolution

[Andres125sx]

What definition?


Main difference between F1 and WEC is not the canopy, but the race distance wich make the whole car (specially the PU) very different, as well as the race strategy approach, and that will never change with or without a canopy

[FrukostScones]

What definition?


Main difference between F1 and WEC is not the canopy, but the race distance wich make the whole car (specially the PU) very different, as well as the race strategy approach, and that will never change with or without a canopy

formula racing,

but that is only monocoque, open wheel single seater...
in my book doens't say anything about open cockpit...
but why have a close cockpit when you have no doors..
so by logic it was always open cockpit not by definition.

[J.A.W.]

What definition?


Main difference between F1 and WEC is not the canopy, but the race distance wich make the whole car (specially the PU) very different, as well as the race strategy approach, and that will never change with or without a canopy

formula racing,

but that is only monocoque, open wheel single seater...
in my book doens't say anything about open cockpit...
but why have a close cockpit when you have no doors..
so by logic it was always open cockpit not by definition.

Watch an episode of the nearly 40 year old TV show 'The Dukes of Hazzard'..
..them 'Duke boys' never needed no opening doors on 'th' General Lee'.. since its been NASCAR-style.. like.. ever since..
..pretty sure the F-22 cockpit shown earlier in the thread does not feature opening doors, either..

[Andres125sx]

What definition?


Main difference between F1 and WEC is not the canopy, but the race distance wich make the whole car (specially the PU) very different, as well as the race strategy approach, and that will never change with or without a canopy

formula racing,

but that is only monocoque, open wheel single seater...
in my book doens't say anything about open cockpit...

Exactly

but why have a close cockpit when you have no doors..
so by logic it was always open cockpit not by definition.

It was always open cockpit, as it was always front engine until they changed that, it also was always mechanical grip dependant until aero was introduced, etc.

Everything is alwyas as it is until it is changed, but if that´s a reason to not change, F1 would have become a vintage series in no time

[Andres125sx]

..pretty sure the F-22 cockpit shown earlier in the thread does not feature opening doors, either..

Maybe the fact that if it end up upside down in the ground it doesn´t matter as the pilot will be dead has some relevancy

But I can´t see any reason doors couldn´t be implemented. Radiators and air inlets can´t be placed at any other point?


Closed cockpits are safer AND faster (reduce drag dramatically), so they´re the obvious evolution for F1 cars.

[J.A.W.]

..pretty sure the F-22 cockpit shown earlier in the thread does not feature opening doors, either..

Maybe the fact that if it end up upside down in the ground it doesn´t matter as the pilot will be dead has some relevancy
Closed cockpits are safer AND faster (reduce drag dramatically), so they´re the obvious evolution for F1 cars.

Actually, Andres.. the issue of rapid egress from aircraft cockpits..
..viz: ejection - right through the canopy - which has deto-cord impregnated - for that purpose, is long since dealt with..
& way back in the days of the Spitfire, the pilot was provided with a pry-bar to assist, should he be inverted on the deck..

[Just_a_fan]

Closed cockpits are safer AND faster (reduce drag dramatically), so they´re the obvious evolution for F1 cars.

Er, no, you can't say it would be safer although I agree it would likely be faster. Actually, faster makes it potentially less safe but...

[Andres125sx]

I´m still waiting for some example of some serious injury/death caused by a closed cockpit at any category Just a Fan...

[Formula Wrong]

My view is that the whole "we must do something!!" thing that is going on at the moment is a total and complete over reaction to "A FREAK ACCIDENT"... One driver dies within 20yrs since Senna's death....

One freak accident?

Jules Bianchi
María de Villota
Almost Massa
Dan Wheldom
Henry Surtees
Justin Wilson
And probably some other I can´t remind just now...

It´s not one I´m afraid, probably not Bianchi, but all the rest would be alive if closed canopies were used.

One is a coincidence, even two can be a coincidence. 6 in past decade cannot be a coincidence, it´s showing a trend, and when a safety problem trend is noticed, FIA job is making whatever neccessary to stop that trend and stop accidents with drivers being injured or killed because of that

This; plus all the accidents where it was only luck that prevented someone from being hit in the head by a tyre, big debris or even a whole car. No matter whether they are freak accidents or not - they actually aren't as rare as we want them to be, and even if a solution couldn't have saved a certain driver in the past, if it can save others in the future, it's worth it.

[Andres125sx]

... plus all the accidents where it was only luck that prevented someone from being hit in the head by a tyre, big debris or even a whole car.

True, I only mentioned the serious accidents, but there have been some serious close calls too.

Maybe if Grosjean´s Lotus would have gone only one meter different trajectory and decapitated Alonso in Spa12 people would think different


Or Alonso and Kimi in Austria15

[Just_a_fan]

I´m still waiting for some example of some serious injury/death caused by a closed cockpit at any category Just a Fan...

I'm still waiting for an example of a serious injury / death caused by an open cockpit.

[garygph]

I´m still waiting for some example of some serious injury/death caused by a closed cockpit at any category Just a Fan...

I'm still waiting for an example of a serious injury / death caused by an open cockpit.

Did you really pause and think before you posted this Just a Fan?

[V12-POWER]

Thank god Andres is not in charge of the FIA. If F1 becomes closed cockpit it will be like that gender war that exists nowadays. not full "cars" but not full "formula" cars. Better creating a different class altogether

[Just_a_fan]

I´m still waiting for some example of some serious injury/death caused by a closed cockpit at any category Just a Fan...

I'm still waiting for an example of a serious injury / death caused by an open cockpit.

Did you really pause and think before you posted this Just a Fan?

Yes. None of the deaths described were "caused by an open cockpit". That's a fact. A semantic point, perhaps, but I think it's important to underline that open cockpits have not caused driver deaths.

[Vyssion]

No matter whether they are freak accidents or not - they actually aren't as rare as we want them to be, and even if a solution couldn't have saved a certain driver in the past, if it can save others in the future, it's worth it.

This right here is the key point that is causing so much of an issue here;
How "rare" do these incidents need to be before it is deemed "acceptable"?

My opinion is that this "rarity" of the events occurring as currently exists today is low enough to not warrant further action.

Other people's opinions disagree.

But I do feel somewhat safe in assuming that the people who say that these incidents AREN'T rare enough today, would most likely still be saying so even with a halo or shield solution. And so it begs the question, where does it all end?