Thanks checkered for that interesting article.
Jersey Tom wrote:Let's back up a second. Think of the high level before getting down to sillyness like saying tires should lay down magic grip juice that evaporates in seconds, or to throw this idea at the problem or that.
What leads to an overtake? One of generally two things - Either Car A has more grip capacity or speed than Car B.. or Driver A can just get more out of the situation.
With a really spec series, the first situation is not possible.
It is possible even with a spec series. The problem is that "spec series" means that you have the same baseline car, not the same car, else it would be a driver series with no teams.
So, in the first place there're set up differences that make performance sufficiently spread so that you have 2 seconds difference in a play field for a series like CCWS; But also driving technique is about having more grip.
While i see what you mean, i stress that even if everybody had the same car (same set up too) the situation were someone via driving technique would have more grip through a turn is totally possible.
Driver aids make overtaking difficult and take away an element of driver skill. If going through a turn there is an optimal amount of throttle modulation and power to put down and every car on the field can take it flat out without thinking, there is zero opportunity to overtake. Part of this also plays into aero, in that with massive downforce and aero efficiency more of the track becomes power limited rather than traction limited.
Drivers aid don't make overtaking difficult, sometimes it can be just the inverse like in the rain were TC allowed for turn out overtakes.
Also i think this idea of F1 cars now being able to go flat out through turns is not correct.
First of all the "flat out" statement is misleading, "flat" means floored gaz pedal,it doesn't mean "max speed".
while 2000's V10 cars did not take spa's "pouhon" turn flat out (or Silverstone's "copse") it was simply because the entry speed was higher than with V8.
To tell the truth some turns were taken faster in 2004 than those recent years.
Next, "flat" turns that are new are rare you still need to brake a lot.
No one wants to see a spec series, nor is that the way to go. But it would be nice to level things out and make the series more open for new or smaller constructors so it isn't just a game of who can outspend who, and if it will be a Ferrari, McLaren, or Renault year.
The problem IMHO is not in the fact F1 is an open developpement but just that it is an open budget series, that's different.
And to tell the truth Champ car was maybe a spec series but budget wise it was open so no wonder why newman haas was in the front and some other always in the back, 2 seconds slower.
[*]Some aero reduction, but not much. Maybe not all turns then can be taken flat out. Plus I like the look of "clean" bodywork rather than loaded with flip-ups, chimneys, and things that make the cars look like samurai rather than racecars. Take away lots of downforce though and you really solve nothing. The cars won't be stable or limit machines. Someone in an earlier post had a good quote about this. It's about BALANCE.
The aero reduction is a difficult topic, you can't oppose tyre grip to aero grip since tyre grip multiplies aero grip, so you have to make a huge cut into aero.
Basically what you do is to balance either towards more tyre grip or more aero grip.
for 2009 the overall grip will be reduced (cars will be slower) and it will be more mechanical grip, this is a first step measure, as aero grip will come again in 2011 under another form, with adaptive aeros.
so for 2009 more mechanical grip and confirming what sebastian bourdais said, the slicks F1 cars are more predictable.
[*]Cap salaries, not technology. No idea how to enforce it, but put a hard limit on expenditure, not necessarily what its spent on. Encourage creativity. Instead of saying "Ok you can't use active suspension", say "Ok we're opening some more technology up, turbos, active suspension.. here's $100 million dollars for the year, see what you can come up with"
This is planned for 2009.
I think your remarks on the "balls" are true, but i'm confident the actual drivers are like that( men and women included).
MickT wrote:Personally if you look back, for me, the best racing was achieved when budgets were much lower and overtaking was possible through slip streaming, out braking, taking a better line or by looking after the car so that its engine, brakes and/or tyres were in a better condition at the end of the race, allowing a driver to drive past the cars of those who had not taken care of their cars
This is still the same today, it simply occurs faster and is harder to notice.
There's not 150 ways of overtaking.
its about driving every lap like a qualifying lap
This is very true and fundamental
sporting problem.
F1 cars nowadays lap just about 2 seconds slower in race compared to qualifying while 15 years back they lapped 8 to 10 seconds.
reduce the dependence of all the aerodynamic add ons who's performance is so badly effected when following another car, this could be simply achieved with a standardised ground effect underbody and a ban on all appendages;
Standardizing that part of the racing (which is super important) is just the wrong thing to do and i do hope the FIA won't succeed in doing that for 2011 (because this is planned).
Even the engine freeze is better managed since it is not a standardization and let each team tune its engine.
Wings does have a lot of benefit especially considering the drag reduction and stabilizing effects, and also it is interesting to have them varying their efficiency with condition, this just make driving fun.
It needed to have less sensitive aero yes but a slight loss of downforce when following someone is necessary.
Aren't we talking about F1? a series supposed to be with the best drivers?
introduce tyres that do not leave marbles all over the track so that alternative lines are still possible throughout the race;
I think the same than aeros, yes you're right it is necessary to have less marbles, but also not paving the way completely.
look at increasing braking distances by returning to a more conventional set-up with iron disks and a pad set-up that lasts much longer than a single race. two sets of discs and four sets of pads for the season, including testing, would see to that and bring the technology closer to that of our road cars;
I disagree here, there's a misconception that shorter braking distances prevent overtaking.
This is not true, shorter distance require to be more precise (but we're in F1 right) but certainly have their effect for example enable for later straight line overtakings, better out braking, and as everything with speed, magnify you're braking and line stealing skills.
Also "out braking" doesn't mean braking better, but stealing a line.
You don't need to brake better to overtake someone on braking.
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