Hamilton emerged on pole position after an intense final battle for the top spot. He marginally pipped Vettel by 0.051. Bottas who throughout qualifying looked to be a contender for the pole, had to settle for third, in front of Raikkonen.
@ Phil, I'm aware that without DRS, Vettel didn't have a prayer with Bottas. This is not about the drivers. It's just my lust for organic racing rather than DRS.
Organic meaning processions like we had in 2010? Where Alonso lost the WDC when he was stuck behind Petrov for 50 laps?
Hmmm... I am sure u would have praised the DRS if Vettel had overtaken Lewis for the win, claiming that how the DRS helped to overcome the deficiency of the poor Ferrari PU and also would have praised the VSC if it had gone in Vettel's favour
So unfair. He actually never posted anything biased towards Vettel. I bet if it was not for his avatar/signature you would no even know he was a fan. But because of that he is always accused of being bias and never acknowledged when he downplays Vettel.
Thank you and nice chatting up with you @siskue2005 as well. I think once we interact more, you will realise I'm not in any way trying to stir the pot here or undermine anyone. Just a racing opinion.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"
Yeah, we shouldn't make this about who has a preference in who. This isn't relevant to the point either of us is making.
I do believe in the concept of organic racing... just, that it doesn't work in a Formula that is so dependent on aero (and creates dirty air) and at the same time forces drivers into pit stops to spice up the racing and brings them into traffic.
It's really simple: Take away DRS and leave the rest and you'll end up with races where potentially the quickest driver ends up in traffic because he stopped to pit for a mandatory tire and is then stuck behind another driver who is significantly slower but on a different strategy. The consequence would be more lottery wins as no one can predict what every other driver on the track will do and some wins will be as a result of lucking into pitting at the right time with the least amount of traffic.
Yes, some tracks are less crucial than others where passes without DRS are possible, but I think we understand enough of the sport that overtaking is not always a question of how "ballsy" a driver is (even if Verstappen fans like to think that), but pretty much a consequence of the speed difference of two cars and how vulnerable one is whilst driving behind another. Sorry, but you can have the best driver in any hypothetical car, but if he loses so much downforce on his front end while following another into the last corner before a long straight, there's simply little chance he'll make that emerging gap up all else being equal (e.g. similar acceleration).
And who is to say that the advantage of one driver following another and gaining an advantage due to getting a tow on a long straight is less artificial than being able to shed some drag with DRS? One could argue that the leading driver is handicapped too, just that in this case, the "advantage" is not artificially induced.
As I said, I'm all for more organic racing, but then the entire Formula needs to be changed to something where it's all about mechanical grip, where aero will be less a factor. But how then satisfy the need to be 'fastest, most prestigious technologically driven sport"?
Understood, I completely respect and understand your opinion. I'm just of the view that a driver earns every pass and not do so with the aid of a button no matter how tough it is to pass. Again, I'd rather see 2 nerve jangling passes in the season than 2 every race. Mind you, button or no button I just don't see how SV could have kept LH behind him yesterday. LH was just in beast mode and generally gave me the feeling of being the faster driver in a slightly faster car. I can't stop thinking about how tasty it would have been if it were left without DRS.
Anyway, I'm the typical human mentality. Always greedy for more. If someone had told me last year all this was going to happen and we would see such a battle at the front between two champions and two legendary brands, I'd have snatched their hand off!
P:S- Thanks to all this serious talk, I've completely forgotten to talk about Natalie Pinkham!
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"
I want to bring the attentio of you all to this qualifying analysis if not posted already. What does it say about the engine power, traction and relative low med high speeds of the cars?
The ferrari seemed to have better top end acceleration and downforce. Amazing thru the high speed corners and the wider lines that Vettel could take.
Really, the Ferrari was faster here and the pole was vettels but he screwed up the exit chicane as he said. What i am excited about is Mercedes low speed performance for Monaco.
Amazing video, Vettel was miles ahead coming into the last sector. He gained most time in turn 5 where Hamilton had a little lock-up and ran wide. Are these videos shown regularly?
The video is interesting, but the conclusions drawn from it are a little bit too easy.
First of all, to me, it shows that through several corners, Vettel had a better line. Especially turns 5 and 9, where it seemed to me like Hamilton entered the corner too shallow. He's probably doing this to have slightly straighter line into the corner to be able to brake later, but Vettel returns that by an acceleration advantage out of the corner (it's a great tactic in racing to keep someone behind though).
There's also this "conclusion" that Ferrari had the edge on the straight. Sure, best top speed was 4km/h better, and at Turn 1, Vettel was ahead, but when they came out of the final corner, it was clear that Hamilton had better speed out of the corner. So, for this comparison, it came all down to how good they took the final corner.
Also, the guy said "Hamilton probably saved some ERS"... I highly doubt that. They drive flat out, and the cars are set-up to deploy ERS when best suited around. AFAIK, the driver has no influence in this (unless he goes off the throttle of course, but that would be a bit strange in quali).
To me, the comparison says nothing more than: Vettel did the better job in S1 and S2, and Hamilton seemed to enjoy more grip in S3 to recover what he lost.
That still doesn't explain the discrepancy between the two pieces of footage, how accurate is the telemetry piece shown by Fox?
I don't see many people talking about it, so i'm going to ask if someone can clarify me. Is it allowed to make dummy pit stops? Mercedes mechanics came out of the garage with tyres and no car came in. It's not the first time we see this from Mercedes, but i thought that wasn't allowed.
I don't see many people talking about it, so i'm going to ask if someone can clarify me. Is it allowed to make dummy pit stops? Mercedes mechanics came out of the garage with tyres and no car came in. It's not the first time we see this from Mercedes, but i thought that wasn't allowed.
No, it's not allowed. However, there is always the possibility of a genuine change of heart (e.g. It starts to rain just as you're about to change) so they seem to get away with doing it once every now and then.
Mercedes also did it vs. Williams in Silverstone a few years ago iirc, but ya know, it happens and i personally don't see why it should be disallowed.
First of all, to me, it shows that through several corners, Vettel had a better line. Especially turns 5 and 9, where it seemed to me like Hamilton entered the corner too shallow. He's probably doing this to have slightly straighter line into the corner to be able to brake later, but Vettel returns that by an acceleration advantage out of the corner (it's a great tactic in racing to keep someone behind though).
I wondered if the shallower entry about saving the rear tyres for the end of the lap. Having said that, Hamilton finds a lot of his time under braking and brakes deep in to the corner. Vettel likes the car to pivot around the front wheels and then gets on the power to pick it up - the EBD days really played in to his hands here. Could just be a case of different styles resulting in different lines, perhaps?
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
he beautiful overtake of Vettel on Bottas but kinda robbed us of a longer better fight for the lead which could be awesome, but I guess that is more track related than DRS. And I say this only from a viewer point regardless of the intervenient.
One could easily say that it prevented us from seeing a masterful display of defensive driving by Bottas by allowing Vettel by more easily.
See how the argument works both ways?
DRS is flawed, yes, but it's sooooo much better than the Trulli-train days of yore when a slightly slow car could hold up half of the field for half of the race.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
Mind you, button or no button I just don't see how SV could have kept LH behind him yesterday. LH was just in beast mode and generally gave me the feeling of being the faster driver in a slightly faster car. I can't stop thinking about how tasty it would have been if it were left without DRS.
It's possible that the battle would have been done and dusted a few laps earlier, of course. Ironically, Vettel benefited from DRS behind cars he was lapping which kept him ahead when Hamilton's tyres were even younger. Had he been stuck behind the lapped car on the straight, rather than using DRS to close up and take him going in to T1, Hamilton might have had a chance earlier. So DRS might have given us more of a battle after all.
DRS gives, and DRS takes away...
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
Bottas slowing down Vettel on 2 occasions and Hamilton's "magic" pitstop right at the end of the VSC AND Hamilton nursing his tires helped Lewis win the race. 5 more laps and Vettel would have caught and passed him.
Woulda, shoulda, coulda.
What is interesting is that Vettel lost 1.5s in the pits over his two stops. Either Mercedes were amazing or Ferrari weren't up to their usual quick stops. Not sure 1.5 seconds would have made much difference in the end but it's one of those little things that is interesting to see.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
I don't see many people talking about it, so i'm going to ask if someone can clarify me. Is it allowed to make dummy pit stops? Mercedes mechanics came out of the garage with tyres and no car came in. It's not the first time we see this from Mercedes, but i thought that wasn't allowed.
No, it's not allowed. However, there is always the possibility of a genuine change of heart (e.g. It starts to rain just as you're about to change) so they seem to get away with doing it once every now and then.
Mercedes also did it vs. Williams in Silverstone a few years ago iirc, but ya know, it happens and i personally don't see why it should be disallowed.
If my memory serves me correctly there were a couple of incidents (late 80s?) where teams would go out unnecessary and linger in the pitstop area just to complicate entry and exit of the car from the neigboring pitbox. That was until someone decided that using mechanics as traffic cones might not be the smartest of ideas. I guess dummy pitstops fall under the same rule.
You know what would be awesome? A teamspeak / groupcall for F1tech members during a F1 race.
I often talk with people from all over the world (online stuff) and if we have a big event, it gives so much extra to be able to speak. Many people just listen to learn. It's very interesting.
Tbh, when I got live timing up, I barely look a the race itself, cause you see so much more, by just viewing live timing (and a map offc), then to listen and watch the race.
Guys
what do you think about Alonso's Best lap he was matching vettel' and Hamilton's at the end of the race?
Just 3/10ths off Hamilton's time. Impressive stuff. I wonder if Hamilton and Vettel could have gone quicker if needed, however.
well they were "fighting" for P1 or almost and compared with 2016 BL they were fast so was Alonso
tyres were used in both cases
it looks promising specially if you have into account Q2 AND Q3!!!
You know what would be awesome? A teamspeak / groupcall for F1tech members during a F1 race.
I often talk with people from all over the world (online stuff) and if we have a big event, it gives so much extra to be able to speak. Many people just listen to learn. It's very interesting.
Tbh, when I got live timing up, I barely look a the race itself, cause you see so much more, by just viewing live timing (and a map offc), then to listen and watch the race.
You could set up an F1T Discord channel, as it can be both voice and text. It's much better than Teamspeak imo
