2017 Canadian Grand Prix, Montreal, 9-11 June

[godlameroso]

Last year pole was 1:12.8, this year maybe high 11's low 12's? You do need good rear downforce for exiting all the turns. Front downforce isn't as important and a little understeer is desirable. All the time is gained and lost under breaking and accelerating out of the various chicanes. Power is worth a fair amount as well, an average deficit of 7kmh means losing almost a second and a half per lap.

[Mandrake]

Amus expects Merc to struggle here aswell. They need fast corners to get and hold the tires in the window. Canada with its stop&go nature makes it hard. Some of the deficit might be compensated by The engine / PU.

[godlameroso]

The rear tires will have no problem getting up to temperature, it's the fronts that will be an issue. It's not a terrible problem around here, and a lot of that can be fixed with alignment.

[Hammerfist]

Amus expects Merc to struggle here aswell. They need fast corners to get and hold the tires in the window. Canada with its stop&go nature makes it hard. Some of the deficit might be compensated by The engine / PU.

That's a bit of a strange analysis. Canada is mostly medium to high speed corners. There is the chicane before the main straight, and then turn 3 is a bit slow, but besides that there are no real slow corners. Merc should be really good there. Way too many straights for that power unit not to show its advantage, and Hamilton is a boss around there.

[ChrisDanger]

Canada is mostly medium to high speed corners. There is the chicane before the main straight, and then turn 3 is a bit slow, but besides that there are no real slow corners.

It's hard to agree with your assessment considering the track map below. Almost all corners look fairly slow. Lots of chicanes.

[Sevach]

Looking at the 2016 pole lap.

T1 4th gear 140 Km/h
T2 2nd gear 77 Km/h
T3-4 4th gear 130 Km/h
T5 Flat out 270+ Km/h
T6-7 3rd gear 95 Km/h
T8-9 3rd gear 114 Km/h
T10 2nd gear 62 Km/h
11-12 sorry but that's straight by any definition
T13-14 3rd gear 128 Km/h

Slow to medium speed corners all around, no other way to look at it.

[giantfan10]

Amus expects Merc to struggle here aswell. They need fast corners to get and hold the tires in the window. Canada with its stop&go nature makes it hard. Some of the deficit might be compensated by The engine / PU.

That's a bit of a strange analysis. Canada is mostly medium to high speed corners. There is the chicane before the main straight, and then turn 3 is a bit slow, but besides that there are no real slow corners. Merc should be really good there. Way too many straights for that power unit not to show its advantage, and Hamilton is a boss around there.

What power unit advantage do you speak of?
Qualy.. Australia Mercedes advantage= .268 ferrari win
China=.186 Mercedes advantage + win
Bahrain= .478 Mercedes advantage+ Ferrari win
Russia= .095 Ferrari advantage+ Mercedes win
Spain= .051 Mercedes advantage + win
Monaco=.043 Ferrari advantage + win
Regardless of if Mercedes has a power advantage or not its blatantly obvious that this power advantage alone now gaurantees absolutely nothing come sunday.

[bdr529]

Canada is mostly medium to high speed corners. There is the chicane before the main straight, and then turn 3 is a bit slow, but besides that there are no real slow corners.

It's hard to agree with your assessment considering the track map below. Almost all corners look fairly slow. Lots of chicanes.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... eneuve.svg

You would think that the hairpin (50-60/mph) would be considered a slow speed corner
the circuit is made up of slow and medium speed turns and chicanes linked by some fast bits

before they moved the pitlane and altered the track, turns 1-2 and 5-6 were fast

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Instead of looking at the circuit picture, if one watches the onboard pole lap from page 1, you will have a different experience and you will realize it's a medium speed corners circuit. Except for Corner 1 and hair pin, every corner is taken at an excess of 100 kph speed. Infact, slowest of those was 125 kph. Chicanes are taken at 140+ speed (that is medium by all means). Except for the hair pin, the car doesn't seems to come to STOP & GO anywhere on the circuit.

Watch the onboard for yourself.

With the increase in downforce levels, we might see slightly more speed being carried in all the corners.

[ChrisDanger]

Instead of looking at the circuit picture, if one watches the onboard pole lap...

I find with onboard laps that everything looks insanely quick. If you drive it in a sim you get much more of a sense of the relative speeds between corners. Anyway, we're splitting hairs over what can be considered slow- or medium-speed corners. The comment was related to Mercedes maintaining tyre temperatures throughout the lap. I think it's more important that the corners are particularly short. But we shall see how Mercedes cope with this.

[Hammerfist]

Looking at the 2016 pole lap.

T1 4th gear 140 Km/h medium high
T2 2nd gear 77 Km/h. Slow
T3-4 4th gear 130 Km/h. Medium high
T5 Flat out 270+ Km/h. High

T6-7 3rd gear 95 Km/h. Medium
T8-9 3rd gear 114 Km/h medium
T10 2nd gear 62 Km/h. Slow
11-12 sorry but that's straight by any definition
T13-14 3rd gear 128 Km/h medium high

So yeah going by that it is mostly medium and medium high speed corners (3rd and 4th gear)
But enough to work the tires imo and merc shouldnt face what happened in monaco.

[Sevach]

Looking at the 2016 pole lap.

T1 4th gear 140 Km/h medium high
T2 2nd gear 77 Km/h. Slow
T3-4 4th gear 130 Km/h. Medium high
T5 Flat out 270+ Km/h. High

T6-7 3rd gear 95 Km/h. Medium
T8-9 3rd gear 114 Km/h medium
T10 2nd gear 62 Km/h. Slow
11-12 sorry but that's straight by any definition
T13-14 3rd gear 128 Km/h medium high

So yeah going by that it is mostly medium and medium high speed corners (3rd and 4th gear)
But enough to work the tires imo and merc shouldnt face what happened in monaco.

You and i have a different definition of what a medium high speed corner is.

And since 2014 the 3rd gear is the equivalent of what the second was before, specially in the Mercedes.

[ChrisDanger]

going by that it is mostly medium and medium high speed corners (3rd and 4th gear)

If 3rd is medium and 4th is medium-high, then is 5th high? What about 6th? Superhigh? and 7th? Ultrahigh? Is there an 8th gear corner on the calendar? Probably not.

[Just_a_fan]

How many true corners are taken in gears above 5th? 130R is flat out, Blanchimont is flat out but they're more like bendy straights than true corners in modern F1 cars. Suzuka's Dunlop curves and first Degna are fast corners and were 4th, pushing 5th maybe, last year. Silverstone's Maggots-Becketts-Chapel complex is high gear stuff but that's rare in modern F1 it seems. Pouhon at Spa is pretty quick too, certainly the second part. Any corner taken in 4 or 5th gear in a modern F1 car is going to be a quickish corner.

[giantfan10]

Looking at the 2016 pole lap.

T1 4th gear 140 Km/h medium high
T2 2nd gear 77 Km/h. Slow
T3-4 4th gear 130 Km/h. Medium high
T5 Flat out 270+ Km/h. High

T6-7 3rd gear 95 Km/h. Medium
T8-9 3rd gear 114 Km/h medium
T10 2nd gear 62 Km/h. Slow
11-12 sorry but that's straight by any definition
T13-14 3rd gear 128 Km/h medium high

So yeah going by that it is mostly medium and medium high speed corners (3rd and 4th gear)
But enough to work the tires imo and merc shouldnt face what happened in monaco.

Here is what most people in the know are saying about this very topic... from Motorsports.com:
"Mercedes is well aware that this is not just a one-off problem,
For the perfect storm of circumstances that hurts the team – using the ultrasoft tyre on slow speed corners at a track with a low abrasive surface – will repeat themselves in the forthcoming Canadian and Baku Grands Prix.

I dont think it can be any clearer than that