2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Thunder]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 8934836224 https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 3025649664

[etusch]

I am not sure if will this be good exampe. At motogp sattelite teams uses not just engine complete bike from factory. But still they are way back in general. Being works team is very important at every condition.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Once Scrabs said that one of the biggest F1 secrets of the works teams are the gear boxes. The engine power should be transferred to the wheels and there is the biggest problem for the custom teams. You can have the same engine code but you don't have its interface with the chassis. Yes, in addition to this they probably are running in conservative modes but I doubt that in certain moments they would not choose to run at full power - nevertheless this never has happen so far.

Merc and Ferrari both lease their gearboxes out to customer teams. And yes the customer Merc teams do use the max power qually modes.

[etusch]

I think additional 10 kw will be very good.

[marmer]

Just did some digging into honda and there history
Since 83 they have only won 69 gp as an engine supplier. The last was 1992
They only won races as manufacturer 3 times twice in the 60s and in 2006. On what grounds did McLaren think this was a good idea the history of greatness is lacking apart from a period from the mid 80s to 1992 which is 25 years ago


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[shryr]

Just did some digging into honda and there history
Since 83 they have only won 69 gp as an engine supplier. The last was 1992
They only won races as manufacturer 3 times twice in the 60s and in 2006. On what grounds did McLaren think this was a good idea the history of greatness is lacking apart from a period from the mid 80s to 1992 which is 25 years ago

You are either being intentionally disingenuous or you don't have a clue. Unlike Ferrari, Honda hasn't had an uninterrupted run in f1 since the 60s, or the 80, or the 2000s. As a factory team, Honda has only participated in the sport for 8 years, 7 of which were complete seasons. Their return in 80s lasting until early 90s, a period you have so casually dismissed as "only" 60 odd wins was when they dominated the sport, not much different than Mercedes of 2014-2016, except for a much longer period of time. They pulled out of f1 when they were finally beaten by Williams Renault in 1992.

The next time they returned was in 2000 as engine suppliers for the BAR team, which at the time was a lower-midfield team that wasn't going to win championships overnight. BAR were battling at the top of the grid by year 2004. It is worth remembering, that Honda V10s were among the most powerful engines on the grid and were the last thing keeping BAR from winning the title.

The only real let downs were the 2007 and 2008 seasons. They pulled out of f1 after the financial crisis of 2009 after they had already developed what we now remember as title winning Brawn GP

[Soichiro]

Just did some digging into honda and there history
Since 83 they have only won 69 gp as an engine supplier. The last was 1992
They only won races as manufacturer 3 times twice in the 60s and in 2006. On what grounds did McLaren think this was a good idea the history of greatness is lacking apart from a period from the mid 80s to 1992 which is 25 years ago

You are either being intentionally disingenuous or you don't have a clue. Unlike Ferrari, Honda hasn't had an uninterrupted run in f1 since the 60s, or the 80, or the 2000s. As a factory team, Honda has only participated in the sport for 8 years, 7 of which were complete seasons. Their return in 80s lasting until early 90s, a period you have so casually dismissed as "only" 60 odd wins was when they dominated the sport, not much different than Mercedes of 2014-2016, except for a much longer period of time. They pulled out of f1 when they were finally beaten by Williams Renault in 1992.

The next time they returned was in 2000 as engine suppliers for the BAR team, which at the time was a lower-midfield team that wasn't going to win championships overnight. BAR were battling at the top of the grid by year 2004. It is worth remembering, that Honda V10s were among the most powerful engines on the grid and were the last thing keeping BAR from winning the title.

The only real let downs were the 2007 and 2008 seasons. They pulled out of f1 after the financial crisis of 2009 after they had already developed what we now remember as title winning Brawn GP

Correct me if I am wrong but Honda actually pulled out at the end of 1991 and let McLaren race the engine for 1992 - no actual development of the engine for 1992? That is the info I have, might be wrong though. The rest I agree. In 2004 they probably had the most powerful engine (race wise) - they always seem to aim for the race power not qualifying (even in the '80s - BMW had higher peak power for that one lap sprint but lacked in the race trim).

[etusch]

I always say that if there will be same tyres or michelin could done good tyres 2004 Bar Honda team could fight with Ferrari. Contrary of todays Honda supplying 3 teams until David Richards had convinced Honda to supply and concentrate on only one team and Honda supplied only Bar for 2004

[adrianjordan]

I always say thay if there will be same tyres or michelin could done good tyres 2004 Bar Honda team could fight with Ferrari. Contrary of todays Honda supplying 3 team David Richards had convinced Honda to supply and concentrate on only one team and Honda supplied only Bar for 2004

Honda presently only supplies one team, increasing to 2 next year.

It's worth remembering as well, that when people look at the number of race wins Honda powered cars got in the 80's, there were fewer races in a season as well.

[JuanjoTS]

So i'm quoting this Post from Wazari in the PU Thread here because my Point is not a technical one...

Hi folks, just to clear a few things up, there was never a scheduled update for Canada. I think a lot of wishful thinking on everyone's part. The next planned update is major in its scope and requires tremendous amounts of man hours to accomplish. Basically the whole top half of the PU should be new.

MGU-H bearing failure is a result of unforeseen multi-directional stress on the shaft and entire casing that houses the bearings.

Should have, could have, would have..........Can't turn back the clock. This whole relationship between McLaren and Honda was rocky from the start and hasn't gotten smoother. We all Honda's performance failings thus far and McLaren has had its share of internal strife also.

I think some underestimate the amount of man-hours and MONEY it takes to put together a current F1 PU together from concept to race-track. Especially with less than half the budget and manpower of the other three.

That concerns me big Time. I voiced that Concern while Pre Season Testing but the discussion died down due to the technical Issues with the PU. So they are trying to play Catch Up with less man Power and Money than the others?

And here i thought Honda was throwing everything at this Venture that is needed to be competitive quickly.

@The Interview with Zak Brown: Makes Sense honestly. The Shareholders see this Partnership is not going the Way they want it and it starts to have a financial impact on McLaren. So sooner or later they are forced to make a Decision.

Edit: Also from the Reuters Interview: http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-motor- ... 8H?rpc=401&

"It will all come together," said Brown, who said there were some big decisions to make in the next 90 days with the team needing to plan for the new car and give Alonso a reason to stay.

I think they mean they only motorize a team while the others motorize more teams.
Budget can be a poor translation of estimation from Japanese to other languages

[Thunder]

But that wasn't a rough translation from a Japanese Interview. Wazari was (ans still is, although a lot less) an active Member of this Forum.

[diffuser]

What I meant is that in an hipotethical situation of McLaren disputing the WCC against Mercedes using a Mercedes engine. The factory team could delay the upgrades to McLaren because that is theoretically aloud.

Theoretically, that upgrade could introduce a failure which could cost them a race(remember all the Hamilton PU issues of 2016 that nobody else had). Also incur penalties in future races.

it's a double edge sword.

There is a rule that they can be no more than 1 upgrade ahead.

[kptaylor]

In terms of delaying upgrades, just read HAM got the new PU in Spain, BOT in Monaco and now FI & Williams in Montreal. The PUs are the same as is the base code, but the works team will nearly always have better full code integration and tweaks from their extensive testing. Having said that, you have to wonder about Renault...

[diffuser]

Wow, 6 10th between ALO and Van

[SameSame]

Wow, 6 10th between ALO and Van

I wonder where Alonso would have qualified in Monaco, P4/P5?