2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Fero]

As I see it, they have two choices, either endure till Honda can provide an engine which takes them to the top or take a Mercedes engine which will atlas provide for some top 5 finishes which will get them some points, some sponsors and some prize money

[Redragon]

Instant results. They dont want to keep waiting for Honda to eventually get it right. With Mercedes they can be 3rd/4th fastest as soon as next year, with Honda it's all up in the air. They can produce a world beater chassis with Honda and will still be in lower midfield because the PU can't last.

So if updates are working and by September are 4th, 5th? Why the swap if engine will be same next year? With Mercedes they will not get an engine to win. At this stage with not big updates done is silly to think about swap, commercially doesn't make any sense if Mclaren doesn't have a sponsor to cover that budget hole.

McLaren wont be going public with the criticism like they have if they knew that Honda could make it work. Remember there are no token system this year and a lot of people expected Honda to come good this year but they have become worse, much worse than 2015. McLaren knows a lot more than we do. They are the ones who can see what's going on at HRD. We don't. What we do is arm chair speculation , McLaren knows what it's doing more than we do. If McLaren feels that the lack of results is hurting them more than what Honda's $100mil can offset, it's because it is. The problem here is McLaren doesn't have the time to wait till September for Honda to show their hand. They need to make decision fast or they will start losing technical staff, their star driver and everything that matters.

The only one panicking about this situation is Zack who was signed to bring a maon sponsor by 2018, if he fails is out.

They did a clever marketing move with indy to open interest with Us market but now they need to attract costumers with results to materialise indy move.

Alo did say will wait until September why?

And Boullier still saying they would like to continue with Honda by 2018, why?

All this talking is just to make Honda to accelarate their updates.

share holders are not gonna cover the hole left by Honda if there is not main sponsor filling that budget gap.

Honda have the budget to stay until 2020 with Mclaren or Sauber.

Alo can move to other team or race Indy.

And Boullier will continue.

So who is the one in danger if updates don't come soon, the answer is Zack.

The rest will not suffer much if there is swap or not. As the situation would be similar.

That's why, the swap commercially without a main sponsor is useless.

[OviJohn]

Insights from JA:

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/06/ ... he-reason/

So if updates are working and by September are 4th, 5th? Why the swap if engine will be same next year? With Mercedes they will not get an engine to win. At this stage with not big updates done is silly to think about swap, commercially doesn't make any sense if Mclaren doesn't have a sponsor to cover that budget hole.

You see, the thing with Honda is this whole "If" or "When". The first we really dont know, and considering Hondas latests dyno correlation statements...well lets just say they´re also trying to figure out "if" their updates will translate to track ready performance.

You say September, but no one at Honda has commited to a specific date. This itself is the lionshare of all the problems. They wont commit to a date! In Hasegawas words: As soon as its ready™ we´ll deploy it.

Picture it this way: You´re very ill, on the verge of death. Doctors tell you and your family that theres a cure, but you have to have faith and be very patient as they´re still working diligently on it. But alas, they cant promise you when it´ll be ready for you to take or if its going to cure you at all. So how will you, your family and friends feel about such scenario?

With Mercedes PU, Peter Prod+Matt Morris+Alonso and the rest of Mclaren staff you can bet that the team will be at the very top of the mid field and very close to 3rd at least! Team regains confidence, prize money, sponsors are easier to persuade and the rest of the financial gap can be "tanked" by these really poor old gents http://www.bmhc.bh/ lead by Mr Ojjeh (You know, that guy we rarely used to see on TV during GPs and now is usually doing "coffee meetings" with Mercedes top branch )

So yeah, I can pretty much see Mclaren main investors bridging the gap in order for the team to recover from this disaster, until new engine rules come by in 2020. PU will be cheaper and closer in performance regardless of the manufacturer, along with a comprehensive budget revision in order to help the lower tier teams get closer to the battle.

In the meantime, Honda might solve their problems come 2018. But this would just be a decent base to finally catch up with the rest of manufacturers by the end of that season. If all goes fine and well, the 2019 Honda PU will truly be F1 proper...That jewel of an engine that Ron promised. Sadly, by the time that happens...Mclaren will be in shambles: No Top class driver, no top notch engineers, sponsors...etc etc. you get the drift no?

[Redragon]

Insights from JA:

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/06/ ... he-reason/

So if updates are working and by September are 4th, 5th? Why the swap if engine will be same next year? With Mercedes they will not get an engine to win. At this stage with not big updates done is silly to think about swap, commercially doesn't make any sense if Mclaren doesn't have a sponsor to cover that budget hole.

You see, the thing with Honda is this whole "If" or "When". The first we really dont know, and considering Hondas latests dyno correlation statements...well lets just say they´re also trying to figure out "if" their updates will translate to track ready performance.

You say September, but no one at Honda has commited to a specific date. This itself is the lionshare of all the problems. They wont commit to a date! In Hasegawas words: As soon as its ready™ we´ll deploy it.

Picture it this way: You´re very ill, on the verge of death. Doctors tell you and your family that theres a cure, but you have to have faith and be very patient as they´re still working digently on it. But alas, they cant promise you when it´ll be ready for you to take or if its going to cure you at all. So how will you, your family and friends feel about such scenario?

With Mercedes PU, Peter Prod+Matt Morris+Alonso and the rest of Mclaren staff you can bet that the team will be at the very top of the mid field and very close to 3rd at least! Team regains confidence, prize money, sponsors are easier to persuade and the rest of the financial gap can be "tanked" by these really poor old gents http://www.bmhc.bh/ lead by Mr Ojjeh (You know, that guy we rarely used to see on TV during GPs and now is usually doing "coffee meetings" with Mercedes top branch )

So yeah, I can pretty much see Mclaren main investors bridging the gap in order for the team to recover from this disaster, until new engine rules come by in 2020. PU will be cheaper and closer in performance regardless of the manufacturer, along with a comprehensive budget revision in order to help the lower tier teams get closer to the battle.

In the meantime, Honda might solve their problems come 2018. But this would just be a decent base to finally catch up with the rest of manufacturers by the end of that season. If all goes fine and well, the 2019 Honda PU will truly be F1 proper...That jewel of an engine that Ron promised. Sadly, by the time that happens...Mclaren will be in shambles: No Top class driver, no top notch engineers, sponsors...etc etc. you get the drift no?

I see that but as I said until the updates are introduced the swap it is a bit useless because if they work you swap to be in same position without Honda money waiting to sign an sponsor that they fail even before Honda came to play.

Might not be an official date but Zack and Boullier were saying 1 moth ago to wait until mid summer and Alo has been saying for long time that he will wait until Sep to take a decision, so by conclusion they know by that time updates will be integrated. Working or not.

Right now as I see it without the main update integrated is even more worse of economical risk without a sponsor signed. If they have it and keep on secret well that's other matter.

But how the situation stands now and as I see it is Zack who is seeing the back door soon and ot is the one on need of results faster than later.

The rest will be same siruation with swap or not.

Alo receiving big salary and racing.

Honda still developing until 2020 continuie their program with Sauber or Mclaren

Mcleren will be a midfield team without main sponsor and still waiting for it while the shareholders cover the gap

[Fero]

And with the way things are going nobody knows how long this enduring will have to be. Its just unbelievable that even after 3 years they are back to where they were when they started and even more clueless then they were in 2015. I don't have too much technical knowledge about these highly advanced engines but i still cannot accept or understand that how Honda has not been able to figure out things in the last 4 months and 4 months is a long time by any standard.

[OviJohn]

The only one panicking about this situation is Zack who was signed to bring a maon sponsor by 2018, if he fails is out.

Really?! Are you serious? So, suddenly Zak Brown, a proven marketing talent, is somehow at fault for failing to fullfill his job because...Honda doesnt allow the car to be developed or unlikely to do what is supposed to do which is: Race! Not at the back, hell not even at the bloody midfield, considering thats what the team achieved last year.

So, as a marketing profesional myself, please enlighten me how does it become my fault or inability to perform my job when the product im suppose to sell is broken and I cant even promise when is going to be fixed or work as intended to my prospect clients?!

They did a clever marketing move with indy to open interest with Us market but now they need to attract costumers with results to materialise indy move.

Yes, and the irony was that Alonso honda engine also broke there. Luckily for Honda, they still managed to come as winners. But the question is, on whos laps does the results materilising falls to? Mclaren or Honda?...easy one.

Alo did say will wait until September why?

Drivers market sir! Vettel is yet to sign, Kimi yet to sign, Bottas also pending. Alonso has to push his cards and thats when negotiations start heating up for the next season. It also serves as a clear deadline (Pressure) for Honda to finally show some sign of improvement and right direction.

Hence why you also read "90 days" from Zak Browns interview with Reuters some days ago. Call it an ultimatum of some sort if you wish.

And Boullier still saying they would like to continue with Honda by 2018, why?

Public Relationships and diplomacy 101. Its like Totto Wolf not wanting to comment on "rumors" cause they dont feel its right for Honda etc etc...F1 bread and butter sir.

All this talking is just to make Honda to accelarate their updates.

Yes, but that doesnt mean...

share holders are not gonna cover the hole left by Honda if there is not main sponsor filling that budget gap.

Really? And whys that? I mean, imagine you have this investment called Mclaren F1 team. It has economical value but also a brand image value that goes hand in hand with the former. So you take a gamble and partner with this other brand believing nothing can go wrong, in fact my shares ($$) and brand value will skyrocket if all the recipes (Alonso, Peter Prod, etc etc) placed come thru with a good show. Then all s**t comes loose! Worst case scenario starts happening, but you still hold on, your brand image starts going below never seen record while dragging your market price to the very pits of hell...Do you, as an investor take corrective actions to safeguard w/e is left and recover or do you keep hoping and waiting for things to just "start working out"? No friend, life and certaintly business at F1 levels of investments dont work like that.

Zak himself does a rather nice and diplomatic insight on this side of the issues here:

https://drivetribe.com/p/YstbAl8OTQC2Y9 ... 5-y5Igp3FQ

Honda have the budget to stay until 2020 with Mclaren or Sauber.

True. And they´ll pretty much stay with both, if they manage to deliver before September ends or they´ll have to rely on Sauber for 2018.

Alo can move to other team or race Indy.

Very possible if he´s unable to land a better seat, which is very unlikely. Or if he decides to remain in Mclaren but the 2018 package doesnt allow for the odd podium or win.

And Boullier will continue.

So who is the one in danger if updates don't come soon, the answer is Zack.

The rest will not suffer much if there is swap or not. As the situation would be similar.

That's why, the swap commercially without a main sponsor is useless.

Read all above and the ones really in danger of being hit with more negative PR and brand damage is Honda and Hasegawa if things dont turn around this year.

[Redragon]

Seeing the news and rumours at Marca that Mclaren are brigning Alo and race to Lemans 2018 I am more comvince the swap with Mercedes is not gonna happen.

[Jolle]

to put into perspective how horrible the season start is: Alonso had a better start of the season in 2001 in a Minardi (who had one of their worst seasons ever) then he had this year.

He (and Minardi) finished last in the standings (of the regular drivers) that year without any points.

Whatever they do, can't get much worse.

[GoranF1]

Seeing the news and rumours at Marca that Mclaren are brigning Alo and race to Lemans 2018 I am more comvince the swap with Mercedes is not gonna happen.

Why is that?

[Redragon]

Seeing the news and rumours at Marca that Mclaren are brigning Alo and race to Lemans 2018 I am more comvince the swap with Mercedes is not gonna happen.

Why is that?

The commercial numbers for a little gain.
As i said if they have a big sponsor yes it will happen if they don't and rumours are true about running Lemans 2018 with Alo are true means they are stuck woth Honda as it is Honda who pays Alo salary.

[GoranF1]

Seeing the news and rumours at Marca that Mclaren are brigning Alo and race to Lemans 2018 I am more comvince the swap with Mercedes is not gonna happen.

Why is that?

The commercial numbers for a little gain.
As i said if they have a big sponsor yes it will happen if they don't and rumours are true about running Lemans 2018 with Alo are true means they are stuck woth Honda as it is Honda who pays Alo salary.

Alonso has asked Zak Brown to make the Mercedes deal happpen in 2018.
The deal is done in Canada.

[Redragon]

Why is that?

The commercial numbers for a little gain.
As i said if they have a big sponsor yes it will happen if they don't and rumours are true about running Lemans 2018 with Alo are true means they are stuck woth Honda as it is Honda who pays Alo salary.

Alonso has asked Zak Brown to make the Mercedes deal happpen in 2018.
The deal is done in Canada.

No source? Nothing there until is done so they are rumours. We will see.

[diffuser]

anything is possible but a deal being done is not true.


Is there a deal ready if Honda continues to falter.....It's probably in the works.

[GhostF1]

Why is that?

The commercial numbers for a little gain.
As i said if they have a big sponsor yes it will happen if they don't and rumours are true about running Lemans 2018 with Alo are true means they are stuck woth Honda as it is Honda who pays Alo salary.

Alonso has asked Zak Brown to make the Mercedes deal happpen in 2018.
The deal is done in Canada.

I have to ask, do you have two people posting for you? 50% of the time it's constructive and worth the read, the other 50% is unsubstantiated claims delivered in a "matter of fact" statement form.

The day a driver (which let's be honest, all of them go through teams over their career like tissues when they have a cold) makes the decisions for the top brass will be the day F1 is finished. We all know Alonso wants a better PU. That has been stated throughout the season on various occasions, from not just Alonso, but McLaren and even Honda themselves. Just without the innuendo and clear attempt to smear.

[RS200E]

There's no shame in being beat by the 2nd most successful team in F1, even with their own engine. You're acting like it's some small team with no expertise, it's bloody McLaren!

In fact it would be surprising if McLaren don't eventually beat Mercedes, but McLaren are on the back foot again already if the switch takes place.

there's something to be said from a business point of view of having a F1 championship where you have a mercedes powered team battle a mercedes powered team for the championship win - you always win.

Sure, the Mercedes AMG F1 team beating Ferrari in a straight-up fight is a good thing and advertisable.
But then, if they get beaten by Ferrari - there's not too much shame as Ferrari is Ferrari, but still - that is less positive branding. Instead, if Mercedes AMG F1 team gets beaten by Mclaren with MERCEDES engines after seeing HONDA fail completely, and have a Alonso vs Hamilton battle - THEN you have something to advertise with;

good old former partner Mclaren was nowhere with the 'competition' but then they got a Mercedes engine and WON.

Suddenly, you don't only have Mercedes AMG Petronas editions that will sell good, you also are able to make Mercedes Mclaren edition and 'Alonso' package labels on your A-class, C-class etc etc. AND Mclaren ups their sales, too.

So interestingly, with Mercedes AMG recently having won 3 world titles in a row, and possibly getting another one this year if they beat Vettel and Ferrari, then what harm is there in having a 'change' in WCC outcome in 'allowing' Mclaren to beat them ? It would not make Mercedes AMG team look bad, in the end, it IS still Mclaren after all. Force India beating them i think would be less positive compared to Mclaren. Likewise RedBull wouldn't look too good if Toro Rosso beats them. You could compare it a bit with Renault getting soundly beaten by RedBull with the same engine, albeit rebranded.

So I am sure you have good explanation why they didn't give Redbull merc engine. At the end Redbull is one of the best team of last years with 4 consecutive title. When they beat the merc's own team they would do this with merc engine. Hasn't that a good commercial potential ?

So with the same logic how is gonna give Mercedes an engine that could bring victories to Mclaren?

They are are gonna brake a contract with good cash inflow to be a high middlefield team. When probably when Honda resolve its problems they are gonna be at same level probably.

So what's the point of the swap?

All of this it is preasure on Honda to accelarate to start to have results by mid summer. Otherwise Alo is gone and Zack will follow for not bringing his main sponsor as he promise.