2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Hamilton vs Vettel incident

[NathanOlder]

I wish we could have 5 questions directly to Charlie Whiting after each race. This Forum could have a poll and nominate our 5 questions! Would be very very informative.

[RZS10]

AMuS: (my comments in brackets)

Hamilton cleared by data, did the same speed on the earlier and the later restarts, Vettel only accelerated there so that Hamilton could not trick him like he did on the first restart where there was a huge gap right away (which means Vettel just did not pay attention and the initial collision was already his fault)

What prevented a DSQ for Vettel was that they felt he acted on the impulse that he was brake tested (which means that _feeling_ you were wronged justifies ramming another car) and they did not want to interfere in the WDC (which they kinda did anyways by handing out a lax penalty)

They were really close to DSQing him though.

___

Funniest thing in all this is that Kvyat got a 10s stop&go for driving safely through the field and not rambo-ing through it in order to not collide with those who were warming their tyres in canada - there's just no proportionality in penalties whatsoever.

[tim|away]

I have rewatched a few key scenes from the race and would like to propose a theory here.

So far, the general consensus here appears to be that VET rammed HAM on purpose and then denied it, despite the footage that proves the complete opposite. You can say a lot of things about VET, but he isn't that stupid to believe that no one would have noticed.

I found it hihgly interesting that VET asked why he got a 10 second stop-and-go penalty over the radio - not once, but twice. To me this genuinely sounded as if he didn't have the slightest idea. Given the nature of the incident, it should have been obvious why he was given the penalty. If we take a look at the post race interview, again he appeared to be absolutely clueless as to why he was given the penalty and didn't even seem to recall at all that he ran into the side of HAM's car.

From all the above, I get the very strong impression that he doesn't recall the event. The alternative theory is that he's so stupid that he believes he can get away with this pathetic lie - and i don't think that's the case.

Once the helmet is being put on, racing drivers seem to focus on the race only and forget about everything else around them. Watch the post race interview again and consider the possibility that he genuinely doesn't remember that he hit HAM. Of course, this doesn't make the incident any better, but it does put an interesting light into the psychological aspect.

In addition, let's remember the incident happened before the race was red flagged, whereas VET asked why he was penalised after the race was resumed. During the red flag period, he almost certainly talked to his race engineer and maybe Arrivabene. They must have intentionally kept any piece of distracting information away from VET, to keep him in his bubble - a shielded place he already came to enjoy even during his time at Red Bull.

[F1NAC]

yep you are all right. They changed VET's wing. my bad.

[Jolle]

I wish we could have 5 questions directly to Charlie Whiting after each race. This Forum could have a poll and nominate our 5 questions! Would be very very informative.

With the blind faith some forum members have in their star drivers they will be:
1. why isn't HAM DSQ every race?
2. why isn't VET DSQ every race?
3. why isn't VES DSQ every race?
4. why don't get other PU manufactures penalties so Alonso can win?
5. why is Kimi still allowed on track?

[NathanOlder]

They say the greats know exactly what is going on around them at all times. I guess its 1 thing Seb doesn't have ?

[NathanOlder]

I wish we could have 5 questions directly to Charlie Whiting after each race. This Forum could have a poll and nominate our 5 questions! Would be very very informative.

With the blind faith some forum members have in their star drivers they will be:
1. why isn't HAM DSQ every race?
2. why isn't VET DSQ every race?
3. why isn't VES DSQ every race?
4. why don't get other PU manufactures penalties so Alonso can win?
5. why is Kimi still allowed on track?

=D> =D> =D> =D>

[PlatinumZealot]

Lewis has the right to slow down. He did the same thing on the previous saftey car.

Vettel wanted to get the jump and stupidly accelerated into the back of Lewis. Even the Ferrari people know it. Why in the hell is he is close to Lewis' gearbox in the first place? Look how spaced everyone else is?

I am shocked that Vettel was not black flagged. Not even schumacher did anything like that. In fact his penalty was almost toothless.. It took too long to be issued and he got a good bit of laps in clean air to pretty much nullify it.

No, Vettel didn't accelerated stupidly. Even Perez had to brake. Lewis braked where it wasn't suppose to do.

Ok people. Please stop this madness!

My comment was unjustifiably changed by a moderator who i shall not name. And who, if my original, unbiased and informed post is not put back to its original state i will report.

The on screen graphics is not in perfectly in sync the with live telemetry! Don't people know this after years of F1?

The Stewards examined Hamilton's car data in Vettel incident. He Did not brake or lift off completely. he aintained more or less constant speed thru the corner. It was Vettel who misjudged his acceleration. Please do your research.

[NathanOlder]

http://www.foxsportsasia.com/motorsport ... ance-over/


Toto saying, the gloves are off, they are now at war!

[turbof1]

Lewis has the right to slow down. He did the same thing on the previous saftey car.

Vettel wanted to get the jump and stupidly accelerated into the back of Lewis. Even the Ferrari people know it. Why in the hell is he is close to Lewis' gearbox in the first place? Look how spaced everyone else is?

I am shocked that Vettel was not black flagged. Not even schumacher did anything like that. In fact his penalty was almost toothless.. It took too long to be issued and he got a good bit of laps in clean air to pretty much nullify it.

No, Vettel didn't accelerated stupidly. Even Perez had to brake. Lewis braked where it wasn't suppose to do.

Ok people. Please stop this madness!

My comment was unjustifiably changed by a moderator who i shall not name. And who, if my original, unbiased and informed post is not put back to its original state i will report.

You are not letting me off the hook that easy, huh .

You do know technically you can edit yourself back in right?

[avatar]

The alternative theory is that he's so stupid that he believes he can get away with this pathetic lie - and i don't think that's the case.

It's not about stupidity, is about one's ego protecting itself. It's painful for a person to think that one either had a red mist moment and deliberately side swiped someone, or (perhaps worse for a 4x WDC) that in a moment of rage you lost coordination and control at slow speed.

Both very embarrassing and at odds with ones self view - I'm a great driver, I'm calm under pressure etc. vs. I lost it (control of mind and/or body) and collided with a competitor. "I don't do that sort of thing, so it can't have happened", or post-rationalising "what the other guy did must have been so grievous, that I would resort to this - that's the only way this makes sense".

the possibility that he genuinely doesn't remember that he hit HAM. Of course, this doesn't make the incident any better, but it does put an interesting light into the psychological aspect.

Whether it's conscious suppression (it hurts so I'm avoiding it) or not (having no recollection as it's been suppressed automatically), who knows?

Either way, you can read the above happening with some fans in this forum in proxy for their chosen heroes.

[foxmulder_ms]

AMuS: (my comments in brackets)

Hamilton cleared by data, did the same speed on the earlier and the later restarts, Vettel only accelerated there so that Hamilton could not trick him like he did on the first restart where there was a huge gap right away (which means Vettel just did not pay attention and the initial collision was already his fault)

What prevented a DSQ for Vettel was that they felt he acted on the impulse that he was brake tested (which means that _feeling_ you were wronged justifies ramming another car) and they did not want to interfere in the WDC (which they kinda did anyways by handing out a lax penalty)

They were really close to DSQing him though.

___

Funniest thing in all this is that Kvyat got a 10s stop&go for driving safely through the field and not rambo-ing through it in order to not collide with those who were warming their tyres in canada - there's just no proportionality in penalties whatsoever.

Are those comments official if so it is a sad sad very sad day for F1. I've been watching F1 since the year Villeneuve won. After Shumi's all points were erased because of intentional ramming during the race. Since than I've never seen anything like this. Intentional ramming has 10 sec penalty, wow. I am really in disbelief. I even think that what Vettel did was even worse since it was not even during the race. He was fighting for basically nothing it was pure teenager road rage.

[turbof1]

AMuS: (my comments in brackets)

Hamilton cleared by data, did the same speed on the earlier and the later restarts, Vettel only accelerated there so that Hamilton could not trick him like he did on the first restart where there was a huge gap right away (which means Vettel just did not pay attention and the initial collision was already his fault)

What prevented a DSQ for Vettel was that they felt he acted on the impulse that he was brake tested (which means that _feeling_ you were wronged justifies ramming another car) and they did not want to interfere in the WDC (which they kinda did anyways by handing out a lax penalty)

They were really close to DSQing him though.

___

Funniest thing in all this is that Kvyat got a 10s stop&go for driving safely through the field and not rambo-ing through it in order to not collide with those who were warming their tyres in canada - there's just no proportionality in penalties whatsoever.

Are those comments official if so it is a sad sad very sad day for F1. I've been watching F1 since the year Villeneuve won. After Shumi's all points were erased because of intentional ramming during the race. Since than I've never seen anything like this. Intentional ramming has 10 sec penalty, wow. I am really in disbelief. I even think that what Vettel did was even worse since it was not even during the race. He was fighting for basically nothing it was pure teenager road rage.

Yeah I don't really get that either. If you reason Vettel's agression as an impulse, than the same logic can be perfectly applied on Schumacher's 97' agression (as the title was on the line and one could argue he panicked). Yet Schumacher justifiably got his points removed. I wouldn't go as far for Vettel, but a DSQ should have been given to hand out a strong message. The action taken undermines sportmanship.

We have seen something similar in the more recent past however. Think about Maldonado against Hamilton in 2011, I believe on Spa Francochamp.

[tim|away]

Both very embarrassing and at odds with ones self view - I'm a great driver, I'm calm under pressure etc. vs. I lost it (control of mind and/or body) and collided with a competitor. "I don't do that sort of thing, so it can't have happened", or post-rationalising "what the other guy did must have been so grievous, that I would resort to this - that's the only way this makes sense".

If you rewatch the post race interview (see link in my previous post), i don't think there is any post-rationalising going on at all. Either he's blatantly denying it and pretends it never happened or he genuinely doesn't recall the event. I lean towards the memory lapse theory. Note, how when being asked about hitting HAM, he only recalls the first part of the incident when HAM allegedly brake tested him. It doesn't even appear as if he's intentionally avoiding the question to me.

It would have been very interesting if Sky Sports actually showed him a recording of the event to refresh his memory. I would have loved to see the expression on his face.

[munudeges]

Hamilton did nothing wrong because Vettel collided with him coming out of the corner, not on entry. If it was a brake test it would have been obvious on entry. Telemetry backs that up. Vettel was trying to be greedy in getting too close to Hamilton for the restart. What he did afterwards was even more bizarre, the 'penalty' even more so and his explanation approached Senna-esque levels of delusion.