2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Hamilton vs Vettel incident

[Squid]

Wouldn't it possibly stop more penalties if he said it was a mistake instead making it look more like he intended to with a smug spoilt school boy look on his face.

I don't particularly care for your interpretation of Vettel's face. It's irrelevant. Anxiety is easily mistaken for arrogance when you have no choice but to say something when you don't really want.

He'll undoubtedly be talking directly with the FIA, that's where he gets to make his case. Everywhere else he's probably better off just shutting up about it until Ferrari is safe that the FIA won't be taking any further action against them.

[Wynters]

Yeah, what's up with Perez and that? He was another lap behind wasn't he? Why did he block Hamilton? And no penalty?

I'm guessing that he could make an argument that there was no safe place to let Hamilton past once Hamilton caught up with him (until they got to the straight, anyway). Given Grosjean's decision later in the race (pull right over and slow right down so Vettel and Hamilton could pass) I'd find that a dubious argument but there appears to be some leeway as to when lapped cars give way to blue flags and when they don't.

[TAG]

Trump still has people defending him too. This is fanaticism gone off the rails, Kudos to those Ferrari fans that have taken off the rose colored glasses for this one. To the others, let's move on because defending Vettel's actions here is simply undignified to say the least. And this is still a forum where facts do matter.

As-salamu alaykum.

[Wynters]

Why is everyone so sure that Vettel intentionally turned into Hamilton? Is there really absolutely no possibility that he did it accidentally?

Four time world champion...can't keep his car in even a vaguely straight line coasting at 60 kph?

...reasonable...

Whilst staring at the car next to him...which he then steers into?

...doubt...

Really?

Keep in mind that disqualification is an EXTREMELY harsh punishment,

I think discouraging people from deliberately damaging cars that routinely speed towards right-angle walls at over 300kph is EXTREMELY important. If, during the red flag, Hamilton had walked over to Vettel's car and 'accidentally' taken a hammer to Vettel's front wishbones, I assume you'd be making the same argument? I mean, he might have lost control of his arm whilst he was innocently standing by the Ferrari. We can't know for sure! You could "easily argue a case of misjudgement", right? Disqualifying Hamilton for 'accidentally' bashing Vettel's car would be EXTREMELY harsh? Right?

[Squid]

Why is everyone so sure that Vettel intentionally turned into Hamilton? Is there really absolutely no possibility that he did it accidentally?

Four time world champion...can't keep his car in even a vaguely straight line coasting at 60 kph?

...reasonable...

Whilst staring at the car next to him...which he then steers into?

...doubt...

Really?

Keep in mind that disqualification is an EXTREMELY harsh punishment,

I think discouraging people from deliberately damaging cars that routinely speed towards right-angle walls at over 300kph is EXTREMELY important. If, during the red flag, Hamilton had walked over to Vettel's car and 'accidentally' taken a hammer to Vettel's front wishbones, I assume you'd be making the same argument? I mean, he might have lost control of his arm whilst he was innocently standing by the Ferrari. We can't know for sure! You could "easily argue a case of misjudgement", right? Disqualifying Hamilton for 'accidentally' bashing Vettel's car would be EXTREMELY harsh? Right?

So it was intentional because it was intentional? That's all that your "argument" appears to be.

Come on, you can do better than that. Vettel being a four time world champion doesn't even come close to counting as an argument. He's a hot-headed guy who is not immune to making stupid mistakes when he's angry.

I'm not even arguing that it was an accident. I'm arguing that there is a possibility that it was an accident. Are you unwilling to even entertain this notion? That he --- up because he was raging at Hamilton, swinging his arm at him, focusing on him, looking in his direction? While driving extremely close and having just made a fast maneuver which he barely finished before starting to rage at Hamilton, holding the steering wheel with one hand? Not even a single hint of possibility there?

[LionKing]

I suspect this Lewis did not brake bull ( he clearly does as seen in the videos) is usual British press's invention / interpretation.

The stewards decision about Vettel hitting Hamilton is listed below.
http://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-o ... rmation-30

[GPR-A duplicate2]

I suspect this Lewis did not brake bull ( he clearly does as seen in the videos) is usual British press's invention / interpretation.

The stewards decision about Vettel hitting Hamilton is listed below.
http://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-o ... rmation-30

Link -> Stewards at F1's Azerbaijan GP found no evidence in telemetry data of Lewis Hamilton either brake-testing or lifting off unexpectedly in his clash with Sebastian Vettel before Sunday's second safety car restart.

[Moose]

Funny because when schumacher did it he did it with a dignified air! And he never pretended to forget!

Hehe touche

I just watched
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekgy9Dh ... Interviews
F1 2017 Azerbaijan GP - Sebastian Vettel on Lewis Hamilton: F1 is for "grown-ups"
and it's infuriating.
The way Vettel tries to avoid answering a simple yes or no question even when the journalist (correctly) repeats the original question over and over again is beyond words now.
If there's no race ban and penalty for Ferrari then F1 is tainted this year.

I take that as a very obvious "yes, yes it was deliberate".

[LionKing]

I suspect this Lewis did not brake bull ( he clearly does as seen in the videos) is usual British press's invention / interpretation.

The stewards decision about Vettel hitting Hamilton is listed below.
http://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-o ... rmation-30

Link -> Stewards at F1's Azerbaijan GP found no evidence in telemetry data of Lewis Hamilton either brake-testing or lifting off unexpectedly in his clash with Sebastian Vettel before Sunday's second safety car restart.

I want to know where exactly stewards declare those beside what is written in their official reports ? After event steward's conference? or do they do exclusive with the British press?

[godlameroso]

Personally, id ban the pair, Hamilton was clearly trying to back up the pack however something slowed him. Vettel with his road rage was dangerous. Id ban both for two races, bring both drivers to both races, send VET to anger management classes, send HAM to drivers standards classes. Place WHE in the Mercedes, place GIO in the Ferrari and then Sauber can get a pay driver for two races, maybe bring back NAS for them?

These standards need to be stopped as this will now bubble away. This will now bring bad blood into the championship, both are gonna wrong each other more than once. This will end badly, this could get worse than HAM/ROS. The FIA need to nip it in the bud, ban both, apportion blame equally, both are the victim, and it sends a message into the paddock for all to see and be heeded.

Bad driving standards and practice needs to be sorted now. Id like to see a rule on when the safety car leaves the pack, the leader must apportion to a delta all safety car line 1 or some line on track when they can go hell for leather, maybe 1KM from turn 1?

If neither Mercedes driver got any bans last year during their multiple clashes and crashes(Spain, and Austria to name a few), then they won't get bans this year, not for this at least.

I don't particularly care for the he said she said, I will say that any further incidents would absolutely merit a ban. Vettel's internet temper makes him volatile at times, I understand the desire to win, and partially this behavior is encouraged by the team's desire to win as well. The stakes are high, naturally emotions will creep in as the contest is so close that any disadvantage seems disasterous, continuous unsportsmanlike behavior should not be tolerated however. I'd say Vettel is on thin ice right now, and Hamilton challenging him "man to man" isn't helping his cause either.

[sAx]

Why is everyone so sure that Vettel intentionally turned into Hamilton?

Because the arbiters of fact did not give a penalty for unintentionally turning..

[Squid]

Why is everyone so sure that Vettel intentionally turned into Hamilton?

Because the arbiters of fact did not give a penalty for unintentionally turning..

Nor did they give a penalty for intentionally turning. "Dangerous driving" in no way, shape or form indicates intent, just that he did something dangerously stupid.

To give you an example, you know those guys who do a burnout out of car shows with their Mustangs and end up crashing into something? That's dangerous driving, but did they leave the car show thinking "Hmm, I'm gonna crash into that car on the other lane"? Of course not. It was an accident caused by them being complete idiots.

[n4rf]

To be clear. Vettel driving into Hamilton like that is unacceptable and most definitely to be considered dangerous driving. Also it shows very very poor judgement in a very stressful situation.
But, at least in my opinion (and I think Squid agrees), that's it.

Look at other situations where Vettel did something drastically. There's been 2 different general cases in my memory. One is, where he get's an advantage. In those cases he drives right at the limit of the rules and his car, sometimes not fully anticipating what the other guys are doing perfectly. Two is, where he just simply messes up with (almost) no advantage to be gained. (think of "What'd he do that for?" as an immediate reaction). Yesterday started with the first (being very close to Hamilton to gain whatever advantage possible) and ended very clearly with the second. I'm still amazed, that neither car sustained serious damage.

[Fulcrum]

Wouldn't it be great if driver's apologised instead of posturing and deflecting? If Vettel simply stated:

- I thought Lewis brake-tested me.
- I got cross.
- I made a mistake when I reacted as I did.
- It was impulsive.
- I accept responsibility for my actions.

we could draw a line under this and move on. Now it's going to be thrashed out endlessly with unnecessary psycho-analysis, lots of frothing at the mouth in the media, etc... And Vettel looking like a fool to boot I might add.

It would be great if Ferrari and Vettel made a strong statement in this regard - but I think pigs will sprout wings before that happens. Too proud to admit to making a mistake.

[ScottB]

Vettel having a temper isn't an excuse, if anything it's a reason to punish him harder!

Perhaps he'd benefit from some time with a psychologist as some other drivers have done, if he can't control himself in the heat of the moment.