2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Hamilton vs Vettel incident

[Squid]

Wouldn't it be great if driver's apologised instead of posturing and deflecting? If Vettel simply stated:

- I thought Lewis brake-tested me.
- I got cross.
- I made a mistake when I reacted as I did.
- It was impulsive.
- I accept responsibility for my actions.

we could draw a line under this and move on. Now it's going to be thrashed out endlessly with unnecessary psycho-analysis, lots of frothing at the mouth in the media, etc... And Vettel looking like a fool to boot I might add.

It would be great if Ferrari and Vettel made a strong statement in this regard - but I think pigs will sprout wings before that happens. Too proud to admit to making a mistake.

Give it a few days. This is still a very fresh incident and the FIA might not be done with them yet. They'll wait until they're positive the case is closed to make a public statement on it.

And to be fair, it's not that often that you see a driver take responsibility for a mistake fresh out of the track. Most of them wait at least a day. Sometimes they'll just matter-of-fact through it in the post-race interview, but never go into any detail. Vettel completely dodged the question because when you're one toe out of the line away from a race ban you really don't want to say anything that might be used against you.

[CBeck113]

This is two men racing, be happy that they're showing emotions and not becoming PR machines. And enjoy the new spice added to the season!

[Vasconia]

Ahh controversy is lovely, isn´t it? it makes F1 even more interesting. Because yes, the best F1 seasons have (almost) always had some controversy.

Telemetry says that Hamilton did nothing strange but every time I watch the images I say something strange and I know how good Hamilton is in terms of provoking other drivers.

BUT, Vettel made a big mistake and perhaps he deserved a bigger punishment. Anyway, another point in his driver licence and he will be banned for a race. He must be careful now.

But come one, this race was great, incidents, overtakes, an un expected winner, serveral safety cars. Finally Bakú showed its full potential, a fast section where you can overtake and a slow/narrow one where incidents can make the race even more interesting. It was full o fun!

Ricciardo is like Button, he always emerges from the chaos, what a great and intelligent driver he is. Pretty shocked with Stroll, he did a perfect race under difficult conditions, kudos for him.

Great race for the Spaniards, I am happy that Alonso was finally able to score some points. Good for him.

Definitively Mercedes had the best race. Vettel can consider himself very lucky but Ferrari needs to make another step forward if they want to wint the championship.

[Gilles27Kimi7]

Well, I hope Vettel would come to realize it was really a very very bad move.

Ricciardo was really lucky here, even more than his other victories:
-Bottas and Raikkonen crashes
-Verstappen Out
-Force India went into fight, crashing Raikkonen too
-Vettel-Hamilton crash and subsequent penalty
-Massa out
-Hamilton problems with the head rest

[marmer]

Just floating it out there would a race ban affect vettel that much. Ham could only get 25 points max which would give him an 11 point lead. Vettel would save an engine and Hamilton is not guaranteed to get 25 points he could have a failure or be off the pace

Take vet out of results from Baku and take off point plus a race ban should be the correct punishment

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

[outsid3r]

Just floating it out there would a race ban affect vettel that much. Ham could only get 25 points max which would give him an 11 point lead. Vettel would save an engine and Hamilton is not guaranteed to get 25 points he could have a failure or be off the pace

Take vet out of results from Baku and take off point plus a race ban should be the correct punishment

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Sure... and ask him to do some community services while you're at it...

Come on, let the guys show a bit of emotions, they're not robots after all! VET got the penalty he deserved. HAM should have also got one if there was proof that he brake tested him, but i'm not gonna be the judge of that. End of story, move on... Bring on Austria

[jjn9128]

My 2p worth as a fan of neither Hamilton or Vettel. The initial incident would have seen no penalty for Hamilton or Vettel, it's clear Hamilton didn't brake test Vettel. From the FOM graphics he was riding the brakes through the corner, they didn't show replays far enough back to show if he accelerated before coasting through the corner - even so that would seem a fairly standard approach to warming brakes/tyres while allowing the safety car to pull away.

With regard to the second contact, I cannot believe that Vettel would deliberately bang wheels, seems counterproductive if it damaged his own car, I can however believe he tried to put the scares into Hamilton to get his attention for a perceived wrong and misjudged it. It was worthy of a penalty and the hardest the stewards can give at the track is a 10 second stop-go (or a black flag but I can't remember the last one of these I saw in F1). Regarding the race ban a lot of people want to see, Grosjean's crash at Spa brought about the current super-license point system we have so it's comparing apples and oranges, Vettel got points on his license for this incident, but again I think he got the most the stewards can give for a single incident.

We wouldn't be talking about this (as much) if Hamilton hadn't had the issue with the headrest, justice would have been seen to be done, more so than Vettel finishing ahead of Hamilton. Although it wasn't actually shown, this is the first case of a black and orange flag I can remember for a while, maybe there would have been fewer safety cars in this race if it was given to more drivers with bodywork hanging off, e.g. Raikkonen and I think Sainz/Kvyat(?). We are however talking about it, which I'm sure pleases Carey and Bratches no end, its a story which will keep F1 in the sports pages until the next race.

The whole issue does raise some interesting points, (1) is the 10sec stop-go the hardest penalty that should be offered, maybe a system of stop-go's from 0 to 30sec in 5sec increments with the exact penalty decided by offense severity and pit lane delta. (2) is the current method of restarts the best? The is a lot of gamesmanship in the current SC restarts which can cause issues down the pack (already stated Hamilton did no wrong in this case). Maybe drivers should follow the SC to a 3rd SC line then go at a constant speed up to the (current) 2nd SC line, allowing the SC to clear, at which point they can go. This would reduce the uncertainty/confusion about when to accelerate without overtaking the SC and when was OK to overtake after the SC period. (3) Address number of points on a license, if I'm correct that 3 is the most that can be given for an offense.

[daniellammers]

Lewis could decelerate as much as he wanted, he was leading the pace, and was entitled to do so.

[Juzh]

Lewis could decelerate as much as he wanted, he was leading the pace, and was entitled to do so.

No, the rules say you can't drive in erratic way.

[Restomaniac]

Just floating it out there would a race ban affect vettel that much. Ham could only get 25 points max which would give him an 11 point lead. Vettel would save an engine and Hamilton is not guaranteed to get 25 points he could have a failure or be off the pace

Take vet out of results from Baku and take off point plus a race ban should be the correct punishment

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Sure... and ask him to do some community services while you're at it...

Come on, let the guys show a bit of emotions, they're not robots after all! VET got the penalty he deserved. HAM should have also got one if there was proof that he brake tested him, but i'm not gonna be the judge of that. End of story, move on... Bring on Austria

No Vettel didn't get the penalty he deserved End of. Acting like a petulant 5 year old when you are at fault in the first place with 'potentialally dangerous' driving gets you a drive through and leaves you clear to go further ahead in the Championship? Yeah right.
I think you may need to catch up. Stewards cleared Hamilton if doing anything including 'brake testing'. Maybe you should stop believing every single thing Vettel has said on this and listen to what he hasn't. As that is far more enlightening.

[marmer]

Lewis could decelerate as much as he wanted, he was leading the pace, and was entitled to do so.

Not true he has keep pace as he is the safety car effectively once the safety car is coming in to the pits. It is his job to maintain the pack while staying no less that 10 car lengths behind the safety car unless there is a reason for being further behind. He should not be weaving or braking harsh as that is causing a safety issue on a restart. It seems he was not weaving and was less than 10 cars from the safety car. He did brake on the apex of the corner but the FIA must feel it was not severe enough to warrant a pen.
Personally it should be made a rule that under safety car conditions cars cannot use warming techniques through tight corners when making a mistake could result in an accident. That corner in particular is tight but the area just after would be fine for warming.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

[Restomaniac]

My 2p worth as a fan of neither Hamilton or Vettel. The initial incident would have seen no penalty for Hamilton or Vettel, it's clear Hamilton didn't brake test Vettel. From the FOM graphics he was riding the brakes through the corner, they didn't show replays far enough back to show if he accelerated before coasting through the corner - even so that would seem a fairly standard approach to warming brakes/tyres while allowing the safety car to pull away.

With regard to the second contact, I cannot believe that Vettel would deliberately bang wheels, seems counterproductive if it damaged his own car, I can however believe he tried to put the scares into Hamilton to get his attention for a perceived wrong and misjudged it. It was worthy of a penalty and the hardest the stewards can give at the track is a 10 second stop-go (or a black flag but I can't remember the last one of these I saw in F1). Regarding the race ban a lot of people want to see, Grosjean's crash at Spa brought about the current super-license point system we have so it's comparing apples and oranges, Vettel got points on his license for this incident, but again I think he got the most the stewards can give for a single incident.

We wouldn't be talking about this (as much) if Hamilton hadn't had the issue with the headrest, justice would have been seen to be done, more so than Vettel finishing ahead of Hamilton. Although it wasn't actually shown, this is the first case of a black and orange flag I can remember for a while, maybe there would have been fewer safety cars in this race if it was given to more drivers with bodywork hanging off, e.g. Raikkonen and I think Sainz/Kvyat(?). We are however talking about it, which I'm sure pleases Carey and Bratches no end, its a story which will keep F1 in the sports pages until the next race.

The whole issue does raise some interesting points, (1) is the 10sec stop-go the hardest penalty that should be offered, maybe a system of stop-go's from 0 to 30sec in 5sec increments with the exact penalty decided by offense severity and pit lane delta. (2) is the current method of restarts the best? The is a lot of gamesmanship in the current SC restarts which can cause issues down the pack (already stated Hamilton did no wrong in this case). Maybe drivers should follow the SC to a 3rd SC line then go at a constant speed up to the (current) 2nd SC line, allowing the SC to clear, at which point they can go. This would reduce the uncertainty/confusion about when to accelerate without overtaking the SC and when was OK to overtake after the SC period. (3) Address number of points on a license, if I'm correct that 3 is the most that can be given for an offense.

But you make the key point.

A black and orange flag appears out if the blue and totally out of the norm and at that very moment Seb gets and can receive his penalty. Convenient, VERY.

[jjn9128]

A black and orange flag appears out if the blue and totally out of the norm and at that very moment Seb gets and can receive his penalty. Convenient, VERY.

That wasn't really my point at all... the headrest coming off is a safety issue for the driver in the car and for other drivers on the track. If it came out of the car and distracted Hamilton causing a crash then he could have suffered serious injury, it would only have come off at high speed and HANS only protects in a head on impact so worst case is a broken neck.

There are a finite number of stewards (3 + the race dircetor) so I see the order as - during the red flag their attention is on directing the track clean up and deciding and monitoring what teams can do the the cars in the pits - race gets under way they're talking about the Vettel incident - Hamiton's headrest comes loose, this is now a safety issue so takes precedent - after telling team to pit and fix issue they finish investigating Vettel and give the penalty. There is no conspiracy.

[Jester Maroc]

Sadly I could not watch the race yesterday. However, after a quick read on the news I have come to my favourite F1 forum to get some rational perspective on the Ham vs Vet incident. To be honest I surprised to see so many disregarding the facts and blindly defending the actions of Vettel.

My take after watching the videos, reading the comments, and examining the FIA's rationale for their decision:

1) Hamilton was aware that he needed to be extra careful to back up the field as he was warned he was almost too close to the SC during the previous restart.

2) Hamilton slowed down without braking and then cruised no acceleration through the corner.

3) Vettel incorrectly guessed that Hamilton was planning to restart the race right at the corner exit (my opinion). This is why he accelerated through the corner and ended up crashing into the rear of Hamilton. I believe this was a mistake and not deliberate.

4) Vettel was surprised by the speed differential between himself and Hamilton and believed Hamilton to have braked at the corner exit (I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt).

5) Vettel was angry and steered his car alongside Hamilton while gesticulating wildly. He then steered his car into Hamilton's. FIA decision reads:
The Stewards examined video evidence which showed that car 5 drove alongside and then steered into car 44.
For those who feel the stewards are British and are attempting to favour Hamilton, please note that the stewards are: 1 Swiss, 1 Venezuelan, 1 American, 1 Azerbaijani. They have decided that Vettel steered into Hamilton.

I do not see any reason why Vettel's actions can be blamed on Hamilton. He was simply doing what any race driver would have done, Vettel included. He was backing up the field.

[WaikeCU]

Personally, id ban the pair, Hamilton was clearly trying to back up the pack however something slowed him. Vettel with his road rage was dangerous. Id ban both for two races, bring both drivers to both races, send VET to anger management classes, send HAM to drivers standards classes. Place WHE in the Mercedes, place GIO in the Ferrari and then Sauber can get a pay driver for two races, maybe bring back NAS for them?

These standards need to be stopped as this will now bubble away. This will now bring bad blood into the championship, both are gonna wrong each other more than once. This will end badly, this could get worse than HAM/ROS. The FIA need to nip it in the bud, ban both, apportion blame equally, both are the victim, and it sends a message into the paddock for all to see and be heeded.

Bad driving standards and practice needs to be sorted now. Id like to see a rule on when the safety car leaves the pack, the leader must apportion to a delta all safety car line 1 or some line on track when they can go hell for leather, maybe 1KM from turn 1?

If neither Mercedes driver got any bans last year during their multiple clashes and crashes(Spain, and Austria to name a few), then they won't get bans this year, not for this at least.

I don't particularly care for the he said she said, I will say that any further incidents would absolutely merit a ban. Vettel's internet temper makes him volatile at times, I understand the desire to win, and partially this behavior is encouraged by the team's desire to win as well. The stakes are high, naturally emotions will creep in as the contest is so close that any disadvantage seems disasterous, continuous unsportsmanlike behavior should not be tolerated however. I'd say Vettel is on thin ice right now, and Hamilton challenging him "man to man" isn't helping his cause either.

I think that was different. I don't think Merc in those situations would file a complaint against themselves to the stewards. That's just like shooting yourselves in the foot. Knowing Merc wants to get as many points as possible in the Constructors.

I mean looking at this whole controversy, it feels a little bit Prost-Senna'esque and it could lead to a mix of the '89-'90 seasons, meaning if Seb could get away so easily with his actions. Imagine a situation where the two are in the title deciding final race and one of the two has to finish (first) to win the Championship and they run each other off the track at turn 1. What would then happen?