2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Hamilton vs Vettel incident

[marmer]

One thing I haven't read by anyone yet (maybe I missed it) was

There was no way Vettal could think Hamilton was ready to Bolt and go for it, as the safety car was still in view and they still had the last corner (braking point) to go. The safety car needed to be another 200 yards up the road before Lewis could floor it. So Vettel (plus his fans) cant use the excuse of "he thought Lewis was going to floor it"

I think this is something the FIA needs to look at with this course, the length of the straight & the speed differential to the safety car has now caused problems every year. Last year we saw Matsushita in GP2 cause chaos at the restart as he caught the safety car before it left the track. This year we saw Merc tell Hamilton they thought the first restart was a bit close. I think this contributed to the coming together between Ham & Vet as Vet might have been expecting Ham to go early again but after how close the first one was Ham decided to allow more time to let the safety car get away.

With the straight being so wide could they not agree as soon as the safety car can move off line they can go past him or ditch the safety car off track into the safety area on the last corner

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[Juzh]

I can see the reason Vettel tought it was a brake test, but the fact still is Hamilton didn´t do anything wrong, SC had switch its lights off so Lewis, as the leading car, was the one stablishing race pace. In that situation, he can brake if he wants to and it´s the chasing car responsability to not crash into him. But he didn´t brake!!

Still, Vettel took it as a dirty move, and reacted with an even dirtier move intentionally crashing into him. So even if we take Hamilton move as a brake test, Seb reaction still deserve a much more strict penalty. And Hamilton didn´t brake test him so...

Politics again played its role in F1. Disqualifying Vettel with Hamilton leading the race would have probably ruined the WDC battle, so they decided to ignore a childish and dangerous move and manage it as a racing incident, when it was not. That´s my opinion

Usually your posts are composed and reasonable, even if I disagree with them, but this one is not of them.
"racing incidents" merit no penalty (bottas/raikkonen), therefore by definition you are wrong on this one. 10s stop go penalty is the harshest penalty since 2012 grosjean race ban.

[Andres125sx]

Perhaps I am wrong but its no the first time that there is some controversy around Hamilton when he is leading the package under SF. Perhaps there is something questionable in his acting.

Perhaps I´m wrong but it´s not the first time that there is some controversy around a sunday race. Perhaps racing on tuesdays would be a better idea


Even FIA is saying Lewis didn´t brake at all and he took that corner exactly the same as in previous restarts, so don´t look too much into it, Vettel got distracted, he assumed Lewis would accelerate at that point and he was trying to keep close to him so crashed into him.

That´s a normal mistake, but his reaction, even if we assume Lewis did brake test him (wich is false), was childish and dangerous, so I think trying to put some responsability on Lewis side is completely unreal in this case. And I think in 90% of the accidents both drivers have some responsability, but in this case you can´t ask the leader to be foreseeable, restarts after a SC are always the same, with the leader accelerating and braking while trying to catch his rival unaware. Both collisions were Vettel fault at 100%.

[WaikeCU]

IMO - Vettels penalty should not be dependent on Hamiltons race result. Hamilton lost the race because of a head-rest issue that was (probably) entirely unrelated to the incident with Vettel. Call it bad luck or something, but that's just how it goes sometimes.

Not sure tho, I mean if nothing had happened during that restart, I think there wouldn't be any red flag, meaning Lewis wouldn't have to remove his headrest and step out of his car. That very specific safety car situation was purely to remove debris off the race track, just when conditions were fine again to restart the race, Seb runs in the back of Lewis causing more debris on the race track again. Then Seb with a damaged race car, probably lost an amount of speed down the main straight causing cars to close in on him and bunching up getting through turn 1 and 2, in which led to total chaos and eventually red flagging the race.

I know it's a what if.

[Bill_Kar]

Is there really any controversy anymore?
I mean, OK, yesterday we were all in a black mood but now it's all brand clear.Had it been anyone else than a championship contender, we would all have an agreement about whose fault is it, and what penalty should be imposed.
Anyway, knowing that my SF friends are hot-headed and arrogant, I'm really happy that most of the reds both in here and in my life can sacrifice their pride and admit what's right.
After all, we as fans should abolish behaviors like this with the power of criticism.

[ClarkBT11]

Wouldn't it possibly stop more penalties if he said it was a mistake instead making it look more like he intended to with a smug spoilt school boy look on his face.

I don't particularly care for your interpretation of Vettel's face. It's irrelevant. Anxiety is easily mistaken for arrogance when you have no choice but to say something when you don't really want.

He'll undoubtedly be talking directly with the FIA, that's where he gets to make his case. Everywhere else he's probably better off just shutting up about it until Ferrari is safe that the FIA won't be taking any further action against them.

Like you said before it's not Vettel's first rodeo, and his personality and decision making has previous to which adds to my interpretation. Vettlel did give us an answer in the post race interview, he was not denying it was intentional and showed no remorse for his actions. "that's what happens when you get brake tested. He thought that crashing into Hamilton the second time was a reasonable reaction.

[Andres125sx]

I can see the reason Vettel tought it was a brake test, but the fact still is Hamilton didn´t do anything wrong, SC had switch its lights off so Lewis, as the leading car, was the one stablishing race pace. In that situation, he can brake if he wants to and it´s the chasing car responsability to not crash into him. But he didn´t brake!!

Still, Vettel took it as a dirty move, and reacted with an even dirtier move intentionally crashing into him. So even if we take Hamilton move as a brake test, Seb reaction still deserve a much more strict penalty. And Hamilton didn´t brake test him so...

Politics again played its role in F1. Disqualifying Vettel with Hamilton leading the race would have probably ruined the WDC battle, so they decided to ignore a childish and dangerous move and manage it as a racing incident, when it was not. That´s my opinion

Usually your posts are composed and reasonable, even if I disagree with them, but this one is not of them.
"racing incidents" merit no penalty (bottas/raikkonen), therefore by definition you are wrong on this one. 10s stop go penalty is the harshest penalty since 2012 grosjean race ban.

I probably didn´t word it properly, I didn´t mean a racing incident, but a usual accident. What I mean is FIA didn´t manage the accident as an unsportsmanlike incident, when that´s what it was.

Vettel considered he was brake tested and took revenge by his own intentionally crashing into Lewis. That´s unsportsmanlike no matter how you look at it, even if we consider Lewis did brake test him, what he didn´t, so Seb reaction is even more innappropiate. I think a 10 seconds stop&go penalty for an unsportsmanlike behaviour wich caused a colision is a joke

[Andres125sx]

Wouldn't it possibly stop more penalties if he said it was a mistake instead making it look more like he intended to with a smug spoilt school boy look on his face.

I don't particularly care for your interpretation of Vettel's face. It's irrelevant. Anxiety is easily mistaken for arrogance when you have no choice but to say something when you don't really want.

He'll undoubtedly be talking directly with the FIA, that's where he gets to make his case. Everywhere else he's probably better off just shutting up about it until Ferrari is safe that the FIA won't be taking any further action against them.

Like you said before it's not Vettel's first rodeo, and his personality and decision making has previous to which adds to my interpretation. Vettlel did give us an answer in the post race interview, he was not denying it was intentional and showed no remorse for his actions. "that's what happens when you get brake tested. He thought that crashing into Hamilton the second time was a reasonable reaction.

Agree, reading Vettel comments he´s not apologizing or anything, but trying to convice people his reaction after first collision was appropiate...

So no remorse after intentionally causing a collision as a revenge, FIA should take note and act, but if they do the season is over, so once again politics will be prioritized over what is fair/sportsmanlike and Vettel will not receive any further penalty

[Vasconia]

Perhaps I am wrong but its no the first time that there is some controversy around Hamilton when he is leading the package under SF. Perhaps there is something questionable in his acting.

Perhaps I´m wrong but it´s not the first time that there is some controversy around a sunday race. Perhaps racing on tuesdays would be a better idea


Even FIA is saying Lewis didn´t brake at all and he took that corner exactly the same as in previous restarts, so don´t look too much into it, Vettel got distracted, he assumed Lewis would accelerate at that point and he was trying to keep close to him so crashed into him.

That´s a normal mistake, but his reaction, even if we assume Lewis did brake test him (wich is false), was childish and dangerous, so I think trying to put some responsability on Lewis side is completely unreal in this case. And I think in 90% of the accidents both drivers have some responsability, but in this case you can´t ask the leader to be foreseeable, restarts after a SC are always the same, with the leader accelerating and braking while trying to catch his rival unaware. Both collisions were Vettel fault at 100%.

I was not justifying Vettel´s reaction, he deserved to be punish as I have said before.

I was just thinking that Hamilton has been involved in some incidents when he was leading the field under the same circustances. Please, dont reach to the conclusión that I justify anything.

Ehh no additional comments about your first sentence...

[Juzh]

Vettel considered he was brake tested and took revenge by his own intentionally crashing into Lewis. That´s unsportsmanlike no matter how you look at it, even if we consider Lewis did brake test him, what he didn´t, so Seb reaction is even more innappropiate. I think a 10 seconds stop&go penalty for an unsportsmanlike behaviour wich caused a colision is a joke

I don't think the collision was deliberate on Vettel's part, because he simply forgot to countersteer after he got alongside and waving his hands, and the FIA probably thinks so as well, so "only" 10s stop go. Stupid, yes. Intentional, no.

[Wynters]

It's quite clear he drove into him by accident

I think Vettel is able to keep a car in, more or less, a straight line when drifting at c.60kph.

If you don't think he's competent enough to do that isn't the next logical conclusion that it isn't safe to have Vettel competing alongside drivers that can reliably maintain control of their cars?

Perhaps you could list your reasons for suggesting that a four-time World Champion is 'quite clearly' so incompetent that he can't?

I'm not even arguing that it was an accident. I'm arguing that there is a possibility that it was an accident. Are you unwilling to even entertain this notion? That he --- up because he was raging at Hamilton, swinging his arm at him, focusing on him, looking in his direction? While driving extremely close and having just made a fast maneuver which he barely finished before starting to rage at Hamilton, holding the steering wheel with one hand? Not even a single hint of possibility there?

In a universe of infinite possibility (perhaps Senna's spirit briefly occupied Vettel's body and forced him to turn into his title rival?) I tend to lean on Occam's razor. He was more than half-a-metre away. His left arm was already raised and he made no sudden movements with it that could have jerked the wheel significantly. He was looking at the object he suddenly swerved towards, and had one hand still on the wheel.

Either a) one of the very best drivers in the world can't reliably control a car whilst coasting at c.60kph (which makes him an ongoing significant danger to both himself and other drivers) or b) he was angry and sideswiped Hamilton to get his attention. One of these seems overwhelmingly more likely, no?

[Juzh]

I don't particularly care for your interpretation of Vettel's face. It's irrelevant. Anxiety is easily mistaken for arrogance when you have no choice but to say something when you don't really want.

He'll undoubtedly be talking directly with the FIA, that's where he gets to make his case. Everywhere else he's probably better off just shutting up about it until Ferrari is safe that the FIA won't be taking any further action against them.

Like you said before it's not Vettel's first rodeo, and his personality and decision making has previous to which adds to my interpretation. Vettlel did give us an answer in the post race interview, he was not denying it was intentional and showed no remorse for his actions. "that's what happens when you get brake tested. He thought that crashing into Hamilton the second time was a reasonable reaction.

Agree, reading Vettel comments he´s not apologizing or anything, but trying to convice people his reaction after first collision was appropiate...

So no remorse after intentionally causing a collision as a revenge, FIA should take note and act, but if they do the season is over, so once again politics will be prioritized over what is fair/sportsmanlike and Vettel will not receive any further penalty

Location: "madrid, Spain"
You should be well aware of alonso's famous hockenheim interview back in 2010. Here's a little reminder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVoLbUyI0YE

Alonso knows full stop the team orchestrated his win via forbidden team orders, yet is using every trick in the book dodging question after question, even though everyone knows he's flat out lying. That's because admitting anything would potentially fuel fia to pursue the matter further than they would otherwise. What's happening now with Vettel is EXACTLY the same story. Of course he's not going to admit a single thing and/or self-incriminate himself in the press, yet people are expecting him to do just that lol.

[Jolle]

Vettel considered he was brake tested and took revenge by his own intentionally crashing into Lewis. That´s unsportsmanlike no matter how you look at it, even if we consider Lewis did brake test him, what he didn´t, so Seb reaction is even more innappropiate. I think a 10 seconds stop&go penalty for an unsportsmanlike behaviour wich caused a colision is a joke

I don't think the collision was deliberate on Vettel's part, because he simply forgot to countersteer after he got alongside and waving his hands, and the FIA probably thinks so as well, so "only" 10s stop go. Stupid, yes. Intentional, no.

If that would be the case, the FIA should pull his superlicence for not able to control his car at 50 km/h, at a place on track where he shouldn’t be after he ran into the back of someone who was driving a more or less constant speed.

[Juzh]

It's quite clear he drove into him by accident

I think Vettel is able to keep a car in, more or less, a straight line when drifting at c.60kph.

If you don't think he's competent enough to do that isn't the next logical conclusion that it isn't safe to have Vettel competing alongside drivers that can reliably maintain control of their cars?

Perhaps you could list your reasons for suggesting that a four-time World Champion is 'quite clearly' so incompetent that he can't?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbSL8edgC3Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV0-Vm8k4_8

And yet we're not questioning his competence are we? Stop fricken overreacting for f**** sake.

[Juzh]

Vettel considered he was brake tested and took revenge by his own intentionally crashing into Lewis. That´s unsportsmanlike no matter how you look at it, even if we consider Lewis did brake test him, what he didn´t, so Seb reaction is even more innappropiate. I think a 10 seconds stop&go penalty for an unsportsmanlike behaviour wich caused a colision is a joke

I don't think the collision was deliberate on Vettel's part, because he simply forgot to countersteer after he got alongside and waving his hands, and the FIA probably thinks so as well, so "only" 10s stop go. Stupid, yes. Intentional, no.

If that would be the case, the FIA should pull his superlicence for not able to control his car at 50 km/h, at a place on track where he shouldn’t be after he ran into the back of someone who was driving a more or less constant speed.

=D> =D>