2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Hamilton vs Vettel incident

[djos]

Hamilton purposely brake checked Vettel. Telemetry will show it. If Vettel wouldn't have retaliated, he may have won the race. Now, both are ---.

Actually the data shows him maintaining speed to within 3 kms through the entire corner and exit.

Vettel simply misjudged what Hamilton was up to and then had a massive tantrum afterwards in the hope no one would notice it was his fault.

[TAG]

if nothing else, this has served to shine a spot light on people here whom I've had disagreements with previously that are rational, fair and most of all willing to admit when they're driver screwed the pooch. It's also highlighted a few others who are just outright bat sh!t crazy blind behind their love for Vettel or their hatred of Hamilton, not sure which is greater.

Personally I can excuse the accidental hit from behind, I can even accept the wrist slap of a ten second stop and go penalty for intentionally or red mistedly hitting Hamilton, what I will absolutely not accept is the sheer cowardice on Vettel's part of not even admitting to what he'd done, dodging the question like the most expert of politicians. The guy is a worm.

https://youtu.be/HSN-S9r3PV8

[Andres125sx]

Also do realize absolutely nobody is making excuses here for Vettel.

Sorry but disagree with this. Saying Vettel didn´t crash with Hamilton because he forgot to turn the wheel or because he lost control when using only one hand in the wheel to me looks like an excuse to deny it was intentional and unsporstsmanlike, like if it was some sort of accident, when going alongside the car in front of you under SC and turning into him is intentional and unsportsmanlike no matter what the precedents are

If it´s intentional it´s not an accident by definition, but some Vettel fanboys are desperately trying to show it only was an accident (not intentional). To me that´s making an excuse, very poor, but an excuse anycase.

Again, shame on him if he was in control, shame on him too if he wasn't. In both cases he would be wrong; it's just changes the context on the background. And, no in my eyes unintentional bumping into Hamilton is not something I'd describe as an accident in this case. Rather, Irresponsible actions leading up to a crash. Parallel example: If I drink 20 beers and cause a fatality in traffic, that will never be passed as an accident, because I put myself in a situation where I did not have any control anymore.

So no, not being in control does not change this into some sort of innocent accident. Most will agree with that. For the record, I'm playing devil's advocate here. I think the bump was to a degree intentional, as in consciously steering input to hit Hamilton's car.

Ok then we agree

[turbof1]

if nothing else, this has served to shine a spot light on people here whom I've had disagreements with previously that are rational, fair and most of all willing to admit when they're driver screwed the pooch. It's also highlighted a few others who are just outright bat sh!t crazy in their blind behind their love for Vettel or their hatred of Hamilton, not sure which is greater.

Personally I can excuse the accidental hit from behind, I can even accept the wrist slap of a ten second stop and go penalty for intentionally or red mistedly hitting Hamilton, what I will absolutely not accept is the sheer cowardice on Vettel's part of not even admitting to what he'd done, dodging the question like the most expert of politicians. The guy is a worm.

https://youtu.be/HSN-S9r3PV8

Let's wait that one out on the coming days. Emotions and pride are still flowing at sonic speed through Vettel's veins. He might come to realize and to admit he was wrong.

[TAG]

Let's wait that one out on the coming days. Emotions and pride are still flowing at sonic speed through Vettel's veins. He might come to realize and to admit he was wrong.

Some people never realize their mistakes, other people realize their mistakes after some thought, the goal is to realize your mistake when you've made it. I'm always striving towards that last one, not there yet, but striving.

[Andres125sx]

I ain't saying you're a fanboy, just that by being Spanish your favourite driver is probably alonso, and as such should have remembered the BS he was spitting in that interview before blasting other drivers with the same treatment.
And because you seem to have some knowledge of F1 it seemed massively short-sighted not to understand why vettel's dodging questions in the press.

So if I´m an Alonso fan I shouldn´t criticize any driver intentionally causing a collision?

[turbof1]

Let's wait that one out on the coming days. Emotions and pride are still flowing at sonic speed through Vettel's veins. He might come to realize and to admit he was wrong.

Some people never realize their mistakes, other people realize their mistakes after some thought, the goal is to realize your mistake when you've made it. I'm always striving towards that last one, not there yet, but striving.

If Vettel realized his mistake when he made it, we'd never had that second hit . Vettel might come to terms with it in the next few days and maybe we get a public apology at the next race. Or, as you said we might not.

The interview really showed how his opinions he formed around the whole debacle conflicted with the video footage. I knew I smelled beacon when I saw it .

[danielk]

WOW. I find it funny how people will defend even in light of very clear facts.

Stewards clearly satisfied Hamilton didn't brake test Vettel. On boards and telemetry show this. Yes he was going very slowly and coasted in to the corner. There is nothing wrong with this. They all do it! not just Hamilton.

In a road car if you go in to the back of someone your at fault. Yes races are different. But still if you go in to the back of someone there will be an assumption that the person behind is responsible unless there is evidence to the contrary, erratic driving etc. The driving was judged not to be erratic or inconsistent to what he did before. The difference was vettel being much closer and accelerating where he did not accelerate on the previous occasion which resulted in him going in to the back of Hamilton. Should anyone be punished for this? My view is NO, yes Vettel at fault but a racing incident.

The incident with Vettel hitting Hamilton from the side, there is in my view two possibilities:

1) Intentional
2) Gross Negligence

If it was the first (which the stewards seem to be satisfied as being the case) then i believe the action taken by the stewards was correct. They gave him the maximum penalty permitted by the rules without disqualification.

If it was the first, then he should have been black flagged with a grid drop for the next race as an example that this kind of driving does not represent F1.

(as a side note they could of also penalised Vettel for Overtaking Hamilton under the safety car he passed him momentarily by a couple of inches as he collided with him)

End result is this: I fully expect a clarification to be issued to safety car rules, not that they need it but because Ferrari pressure FIA to take some heat from Vettel, this clarification will later be dropped as with the verstappen rule.

Vettel comes off very badly from this either way you look at it. Hes either crashed intentionally or has so little skill he cannot control a car at 30mph resulting in two collisions. Yes others have ran in to the back of people as others keep pointing out by posting videos of times Hamilton has done it. (and yes vettel has done it also) Nobody gives a damn about the first incident. Its the second one and you will find very few examples of incidents like that in F1 history.

I like im sure many other F1 fans have warmed to Vettel over the past few years, but incidents like this aint good. Vettel needs to come back (and im sure he will) and say, OK ive looked at the incident, Ive calmed down, i was wrong and I accept the penalty. He will probably maintain that he over corrected his car or something but accept he was wrong to drive up alongside and react.

[Andres125sx]

Hamilton was correct that a vsc would have been appropriate for what was debris on track and it's the most fare way to not influence the race coincidentally would have not allowed this incident to occur no explanation of why it was not a vsc

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

VSC don´t get the cars toghether, so they´re spread around the track with not much free space between them. If marshals need to enter the track to clean debris it´s much safer for them a SC wich get the cars toghether so there´s a big gap from last car to the leader/SC wich make it easier for marshals to enter the track and clean it up.

I can understand Lewis statement as the race had been restarted one lap ago, but even if all the cars were toghether, a VSC allows a much faster race pace, letting a smaller time gap for marhsals to clean the track between the last car and the leader, and also their safety would be more compromised as the cars are running faster when compared to a SC.

Basically when Lewis said that I did agree, but after thinking a bit about it I realiced FIA did it correctly

[DiogoBrand]

There's not a single evidence that Vettel didn't steer into Hamilton intentionally, the fact that we hear him whine on every single race every time someone isn't doing exactly what he needs, and the fact that he just dodges the question about hitting Hamilton by saying "What he did was wrong too" are good enough evidence that he did steer into Hamilton to "solve the disagreement". What's left to determine is: If using a formula one car as a bumper car, under safety car conditions, to try and solve a disagreement isn't enough to get a DSQ, I don't know what is.

People often talk about how the FIA isn't able to penalize Verstappen for his stupid moves, but when a guy is able to tell the race director to --- himself, and use his car to bump into another car under SC because he's angry and still get away with everything, that's what really makes the FIA look ridiculous, if it didn't already.

And to the "He didn't do it un purpose", "He did it by mistake because he just had on hand on the wheel" comments: Please...

[Sieper]

Hamilton, not only the very best driver on the grid but certainly, and maybe even more so, the best controller of mind games as well. He can easily handle the amiable but too quickly irritated Vettel. The stunt he pulled yesterday I guess even Hamilton wasn't expecting or hoping for but it turned out great for him, Vettel took the bait and wow did he!

Even if Hamiltons headrest coming of prevented him from taking the full win yesterday I believe he has more or less decided the game (the mind game) for winning this season yesterday. How can Vettel come back out of this position? It will only get worse now and I fear ending up in red Ferrari flames.

[n_anirudh]

I did look at the video several times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDv5CKFLCUo

1. Why dont brake lights go on when Hamilton brakes for the corner?
2. Was he at very low speed that he did not need to brake.
3. Drivers needed to have hands on his wheel at all times, - perhaps something that needs to be written into the rule books (unless they are heading to a crash/accident)
4. Vettel "overtook" Hamilton: Vettel was briefly ahead of him during the SC- an incorrect action on his part.
5. Vettels hands are raised after "side-swiping him" - I cannot speak for Vettel, but I believe the car drifted to the right as he was driving with only one hand on the wheel. His actions were not justified. This would happen to road users who dont look ahead while driving.
6. Vettel was not spoken to by the Stewards who imposed the penalty. It was an incident between the 2 drivers, and FIA stewards needed to have spoken to both. Penalty points and 10 sec penalty can always be added at the end of the race.

[Sniffit]

I really don't get why people, specially in the media are giving Vettel a public flogging. People have been complaining for years about the lack of spectacal, moaning about the increased "corporatisation" of the sport, how drivers have been forced to curtail their emotions, more or less turning them boring.
We finally have a driver that that shows his emotions, that act out both verbally (Brazil 2016) and in the car (Baku 2017) and people are mad about it?
Is it gentlemanly? No.
Is it good entertainment? Absolutely!
I am not suggesting that we turn F1 into a demolition derby, but just like fights and cheap shots add to the show in sports like football and ice hockey, so for the raw emotion shown by Seb in these instances.

[Sieper]

Be prepared for much more raw emotion, Hamilton is deeply under his skin now and for sure will find for one all possible scenarios to milk this out to the max (which he is already doing) and two will be sure to end up in new situations were Vettel looses it.

[Jolle]

I did look at the video several times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDv5CKFLCUo

1. Why dont brake lights go on when Hamilton brakes for the corner?
2. Was he at very low speed that he did not need to brake.
3. Drivers needed to have hands on his wheel at all times, - perhaps something that needs to be written into the rule books (unless they are heading to a crash/accident)
4. Vettel "overtook" Hamilton: Vettel was briefly ahead of him during the SC- an incorrect action on his part.
5. Vettels hands are raised after "side-swiping him" - I cannot speak for Vettel, but I believe the car drifted to the right as he was driving with only one hand on the wheel. His actions were not justified. This would happen to road users who dont look ahead while driving.
6. Vettel was not spoken to by the Stewards who imposed the penalty. It was an incident between the 2 drivers, and FIA stewards needed to have spoken to both. Penalty points and 10 sec penalty can always be added at the end of the race.

1. He didn’t
2. Out of the corner he held a constant speed (Vettel hit him when he’s still turning out of the corner)
3. Don’t be rediculous.
4. It was the least offensive thing he did at the time.
5. If that happens in a road car (which it doesn’t) they need to take your license.
6. It wasn’t an incident between two drivers. They looked at the data, although some people will not believe it, Hamilton did nothing wrong or different then the other race starts.