2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Hamilton vs Vettel incident

[adrianjordan]

There is precedence of sorts here, Schumacher in 1998. He collided with Villeneuve (granted at racing speeds) and was DSQ from the WDC...

[drunkf1fan]

Ergo Lewis did NOTHING wrong, no matter what´s your point of view, facts are facts, and in this case it´s proved the only thing a leader cannot do, was not done by the race leader.

Nonsense - that's your opinion, not a fact.

In my opinion they both share the blame for the initial collision - Vettel was too close to Hamilton and Hamilton slowed at an inappropriate place, particularly given that Vettel was right on his tail. It's fair to say that Vettel was more to blame, he was just too keen not to be caught out as per the previous restart, and his anger was mainly with himself for having broken his front wing, but to suggest Hamilton didn't know what he was doing in trying to unsettle the guy behind at the restart is to do Hamilton a disservice.

According to Ricciardo; "Look, whether Lewis slowed down or not, he has every right to dictate the pace. He's the leader, and it was too early for him to accelerate.

"You're not going to make the restart out of Turn 15. Seb was probably just a little bit over-excited."

http://www.news.com.au/sport/motorsport ... aa290a641c

I've been saying this repeatedly in reply to people on various forums. Every other driver knew Hamilton wasn't going to speed out of turn 15 because he'd catch the safety car ridiculously early and have to back out. Even if Hamilton accelerated hard out of t15, Vettel would catch him with ease before the safety car line. There was no reason to accelerate and absolutely no reason to believe Hamilton would restart out of t15. For him to restart out of t15 he would have had to slow down to that kinda speed 2 corners before to let the safety car get away enough.

Even then the question of reaction time and how the collision happened is a problem. No car, not just the leader, is supposed to drive erratically under the safety car. We shouldn't forget that Vettel accelerated hard, from what 50 to 75kph or so then braking back to 50kph to get alongside. So from Perez's point of view the guy infront of him has gone, which means the guy ahead of him he couldn't see immediately was accelerating. Perez's trace would be interesting because it certainly looks like he begins to accelerate but stops as soon as Vettel pulls over enough to see Hamilton. So Perez closes the gap but backs off and doesn't even get very close. Vettel claims Hamilton sped up then braked hard, he didn't. Vettel actually did do that.... and didn't come close to hitting Hamilton or Vettel, so what is Vettel's excuse even if Hamilton did that.

[TAG]

Anybody know Vettel's agent's number? I have an idea for a chain of gas (petrol) stations, looking for investors. I shall call them Stop & Go.

[elf341]

The posts calling for DSQ or Race Ban are missing that these are only valid responses if the collision was indeed an intentional "slap" as Brundle called it.

From what I can read, Vettel has admitted nothing. And there is still a compelling explanation that he only meant to gesticulate and veered into Hamilton by having one hand on the wheel.

If 1st interpretation is the right one, then DSQ may be right.
If 2nd interpretation is the right one, then DSQ is way too harsh.

cf. difference between murder and manslaughter. Same action, different interpretations, and different punishments.

This is also the reason why Vettel will not admit his true intention without immunity from FIA.

[Phil]

Check the official FIA Stewards report again. I am fairly certain that distinction has already been made.

The Stewards, having received a report from the Race Director, examined video evidence, have
considered the following matter and determine the following:

No / Driver 5 - Sebastian Vettel
Competitor Scuderia Ferrari
Time 17:44
Session Race
Fact Car 5 collided with car 44 in Turn 16.
Offence Breach of Article 27.4 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.
Decision 10 Second Stop and Go penalty.
(3 penalty points awarded, 9 points total for the 12 month period)
Reason The Stewards examined video evidence which showed that car 5 drove alongside and then steered into car 44.

The Stewards decide this manoeuvre was deemed potentially dangerous.

the "car 5 drove alongside AND THEN STEERED into car 44.". Unless cars now days drive itself, I think it's fairly straight forward.

I am not sure why this is even discussed to be honest, because intent or not, he pulled up alongside and as a result of that action (that already wasn't allowed), the next happened.

[NathanOlder]

I think what is telling, is the camera track side looking from T16 back to T15, and its quite clear that Vettel does straighten the car momentarily and the turns again into Hamilton. Its not 1 continuous curve that would be more likely to be an accident in my opinion. He made an extra steering input directly in to the 44. Look here at about 7 seconds in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOI2It_W3No

[Phil]

I agree. And if it was a genuine accident, why on earth wouldn't Seb just say that post race?

[FrukostScones]

There is precedence of sorts here, Schumacher in 1998. He collided with Villeneuve (granted at racing speeds) and was DSQ from the WDC...

Guys, apples and pies.
But VET deserves a black flag for the Baku race, if he had at least one hand on the steering wheel during the move. Point deletion and then move on. If anyone has a brain at FIA and liberty this will happen. Maybe also a 250.000 Dollar fine for road victim charity .Wdc set to zero and set an example that road rage is never tolerated.

[iotar__]

- I'm looking forward to Silverstone and "gradual-ish deceleration" through Becketts, just before the crash of course, since place and a car behind is irrelevant.
- First lap with one car 5 s behind and second time within 0,5 s. As long as it happened before and is "gradual-ish" everyone should be ready for any type of stupid driving after all .

[Manoah2u]

Check the official FIA Stewards report again. I am fairly certain that distinction has already been made.

The Stewards, having received a report from the Race Director, examined video evidence, have
considered the following matter and determine the following:

No / Driver 5 - Sebastian Vettel
Competitor Scuderia Ferrari
Time 17:44
Session Race
Fact Car 5 collided with car 44 in Turn 16.
Offence Breach of Article 27.4 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.
Decision 10 Second Stop and Go penalty.
(3 penalty points awarded, 9 points total for the 12 month period)
Reason The Stewards examined video evidence which showed that car 5 drove alongside and then steered into car 44.

The Stewards decide this manoeuvre was deemed potentially dangerous.

the "car 5 drove alongside AND THEN STEERED into car 44.". Unless cars now days drive itself, I think it's fairly straight forward.

I am not sure why this is even discussed to be honest, because intent or not, he pulled up alongside and as a result of that action (that already wasn't allowed), the next happened.

which further proves that the peanuts at race control did not bother to investigate the incident RIGHT before that; when Vettel slammed into the back of Lewis.

another one that went under the radar - i can only say delibaretly, as they were very keen to throw some penalties towards kvyat for less. also, sainz.

and then i haven't mentioned overtaking during the safety car. again.

but, we'll see.

this will blow over. nothing will happen.

[Manoah2u]

There is precedence of sorts here, Schumacher in 1998. He collided with Villeneuve (granted at racing speeds) and was DSQ from the WDC...

Guys, apples and pies.
But VET deserves a black flag for the Baku race, if he had at least one hand on the steering wheel during the move. Point deletion and then move on. If anyone has a brain at FIA and liberty this will happen. Maybe also a 250.000 Dollar fine for road victim charity .Wdc set to zero and set an example that road rage is never tolerated.

Button said it wasn't road rage because it wasnt on the road

track rage it is

[Treble]

Everybody can have his opinion. In my opinion Vettel made a mistake. They gave him a Drive-trough penalty. Maybe the stewards should give him a black flag if they considered the second collision intentional and dangerous but they didn't do it. Race is over with that. FIA changing this verdict three days after the race, in my opinion is a completely nonsense. There is no sport where after three days they modify penalties. The steward had to decide during the race, not the media or the other team the day after....There are rules, it is not a circus.

[Xwang]

Everybody can have his opinion. In my opinion Vettel made a mistake. They gave him a Drive-trough penalty. Maybe the stewards should give him a black flag if they considered the second collision intentional and dangerous but they didn't do it. Race is over with that. FIA changing this verdict three days after the race, in my opinion is a completely nonsense. There is no sport where after three days they modify penalties. The steward had to decide during the race, not the media or the other team the day after....There are rules, it is not a circus.

+1

[McL-H]

Vettel should not get further pubishment at all. In fact, I'd love to see plenty more of this.

Finally some rivalry and people immediately want to take it down. Anyone remember Senna, deliberately crashing into Prost? Schumacher, deliberately crashing into Hill? Alonso, holding up Hamilton in Hungary? These are moments we still talk about, because it are the rivalries that create the stories we remember. And the more tense the rivalries get, the bigger the memories we'll have in the future. As long as these actions don't turn dangerously out of hand, we should stop whining about them, and just enjoy.

What Vettel did was stupid, he got penalised for it accordingly, and by that, it's done. You can't just alter penalties after they have been handed out.. I'm just happy to see a driver with emotions, and I have no problem seeing them lose control of their emotions every now and then. It makes them human. It's something this robotic sport could drastically use with all these PR machines. As long as they get a reasonable penalty for certain actions, it's ok in my book.

[Manoah2u]

Vettel should not get further pubishment at all. In fact, I'd love to see plenty more of this.

yeah, let's make it destruction derby F1, that'll be safe and fantastic to view.

or wait, that already excists, better send Vettel there.
If this was Indy or so, he'd have a firm, firm, really firm ban. and deserved.