2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Hamilton vs Vettel incident

[CBeck113]

690 posts (this is 691 ) in four days - got your attention, didn't they?

[McL-H]

Vettel should not get further pubishment at all. In fact, I'd love to see plenty more of this.

yeah, let's make it destruction derby F1, that'll be safe and fantastic to view.

or wait, that already excists, better send Vettel there.
If this was Indy or so, he'd have a firm, firm, really firm ban. and deserved.

There was no destruction at all, just some wheels touching at 30 mph, boo-hoo!!! Stop acting as if he committed a murder. If he would have wanted to destroy Hamilton's car, it would not have finished the race.

[Xwang]

Vettel should not get further pubishment at all. In fact, I'd love to see plenty more of this.

yeah, let's make it destruction derby F1, that'll be safe and fantastic to view.

or wait, that already excists, better send Vettel there.
If this was Indy or so, he'd have a firm, firm, really firm ban. and deserved.

This is destruction derby:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QN8fQi2uZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMbsfkQsrd4
Let's squalify Senna from 1990 WDC.
[ironic mode on]Oh no he came over the kerb so he was innocent like Bottas.[/ironic mode off]

[Treble]

Vettel should not get further pubishment at all. In fact, I'd love to see plenty more of this.

yeah, let's make it destruction derby F1, that'll be safe and fantastic to view.

or wait, that already excists, better send Vettel there.
If this was Indy or so, he'd have a firm, firm, really firm ban. and deserved.

It was more destructive Bottas vs Raikkonen. If Vettel would be further punished, then Verstappen and Bottas cases would be too . If they want stricty rules so they have to apply them for everyone. I repeat Vettel made a mistake and the Stewards took a decision. It is not acceptable to modify the penalties after 3 days because the english media made a big thing about it.

[bhall II]

Baked Alaska

• 6 tablespoons sugar
• 3 large egg yolks
• 1 teaspoon pure vanilla extract
• 3 ounces bittersweet chocolate, melted and cooled
• 3 large egg whites, room temperature
• Pinch of salt
• 1 1/2 pints pistachio ice cream, slightly softened
• 1 1/2 pints cherry ice cream or berry sorbet, slightly softened
• Swiss Meringue
• Vegetable oil cooking spray

1. Preheat oven to 350 degrees. Line an 8-inch round cake pan with parchment paper, and spray with cooking spray.

2. Combine 3 tablespoons sugar and the egg yolks in bowl of an electric mixer fitted with the whisk attachment; whisk, on medium speed, until pale yellow and thick, about 15 minutes. Add vanilla, and fold in melted chocolate just to combine.

3. In a medium bowl, combine egg whites and pinch of salt in bowl of electric mixer; whip, on medium speed, until frothy. Add remaining 3 tablespoons sugar; beat until stiff. Fold egg whites into the chocolate mixture.

4. Carefully pour batter out into prepared cake pan. Bake until cake is set and top is dull, about 20 minutes. Remove from oven, and let cool on a wire rack.

5. Spray a 5-cup-capacity metal bowl with cooking spray; line with plastic. Pack base of bowl with pistachio ice cream; layer cherry ice cream over pistachio, then finish with another layer of pistachio ice cream (or layer ice creams and sorbets as you desire). Pack firmly, cover surface with plastic wrap, and place in freezer. Freeze until ice cream is very hard, at least 2 hours or up to 24 hours in advance.

6. Place cake on a parchment-lined baking sheet. Remove ice cream from the freezer, and invert bowl over cake. Keep the ice cream covered with plastic wrap, and return ice-cream cake to the freezer.

7. Preheat oven to 500 degrees. Fill a pastry bag, fitted with an Ateco #5 star tip, with meringue; pipe onto ice cream in a decorative fashion, or spoon meringue over ice cream and swirl with a rubber spatula. If ice cream starts to soften, return cake to freezer for 15 minutes.

8. Place in oven, and bake until meringue just starts to brown, 1 to 2 minutes. Remove from oven, and serve immediately.

[smellybeard]

Check the official FIA Stewards report again. I am fairly certain that distinction has already been made.

The Stewards, having received a report from the Race Director, examined video evidence, have
considered the following matter and determine the following:

No / Driver 5 - Sebastian Vettel
Competitor Scuderia Ferrari
Time 17:44
Session Race
Fact Car 5 collided with car 44 in Turn 16.
Offence Breach of Article 27.4 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.
Decision 10 Second Stop and Go penalty.
(3 penalty points awarded, 9 points total for the 12 month period)
Reason The Stewards examined video evidence which showed that car 5 drove alongside and then steered into car 44.

The Stewards decide this manoeuvre was deemed potentially dangerous.

the "car 5 drove alongside AND THEN STEERED into car 44.". Unless cars now days drive itself, I think it's fairly straight forward.

I am not sure why this is even discussed to be honest, because intent or not, he pulled up alongside and as a result of that action (that already wasn't allowed), the next happened.

The stewards of the race are "judges of fact" and their findings will form the basis of any further action.

[Edax]

what's surprised me the most about all this is everyones melodramatic reactions - not the stewards, or the potential FIA inquiry...but the fans.
i view this sport as entertainment, and vettel's uncontrolled rage adds a bit more spice to it. i thought it was hilarious when he barged into him.
i actually think it wasnt on purpose - i think vettel was so mad whilst gestulating towards ham, when he pulled up alongside, he didn't realise he was swerving into him. that would also explain why vettel didn't even acknowledge what happened after the race - either that or - like China last year when he hit Kimi - he was totally aware and realising what he'd done, tried some damage control to show some kind of innocence.

either way, i really don't care. I find it so weird that fans are so emotionally invested in it - people going 'his actions were vile' and 'sets a bad example'. Oh yeah sure - i'm sure kids watching are now going to start barging other people off the road??
and when it comes to actions on track.....99% of the world population cannot afford to do motorsport anyway....it's not going to have any impact.

plus he was penalised for it - so no other driver on the grid is now going to think its acceptable.
my main point is, to me, it was funny - like a film or something. We now have the raging vettel, furious at mercedes domination and desperately wants to win, vs Hamilton, trying to prove himself in a car that is no longer 1.5s quicker than everything else.

its great for the sport, great for the entertainment - we see this kind of stuff in Nascar or MotoGP All the time - I think F1 has been watered down so much the last 10 years, and it seems like, so have the fans. Vettel showing his emotion in the car is great - its not like he weaponized his car and caused danger, unlike say, oh i don't know, that other driver thats worshipped without question - Senna in 1990 - which really was Insane.

really hoping Chase Carey and the team don't listen to all the fan BS and look at it from an entertainment perspective.

Just imagine this is not a track. Just imagine that you're driving your car along the freeway. You have somehow pissed off another motorist. He pulls along, wildly gestulating, and then cuts you off.

It probably wont take you a lot of effort to imagine this, because it likely has happened to you, like it happend to most of us. And you probably wont find it entertaining because it is not fun when someone threatens to damage one of your most expensive possessions just to make a point.

I think the reason most of us, me included, find this action repulsive, is because it resembles one of our daily annoyances. It simply is road rage.

In the end it doe not matter whether it is racing, it is just a guy going into a rage fit, harassing others on the road. It serves no function, he doesn't get there faster, it won't win him points. He risks his car and his race just because he cannot control himself.

I tis not about setting an example. By this action Vettel has made himself a proxy for all the maniacs on the road.

But instead of the non-descript honda civic which disappears of the slip road before you have a chance to memorise the plate, you now have a name and a number. That makes him an ideal target for our collective scorn

[McL-H]

Baked Alaska

• 6 tablespoons sugar
• 3 large egg yolks
• 1 teaspoon pure vanilla extract
• 3 ounces bittersweet chocolate, melted and cooled
• 3 large egg whites, room temperature
• Pinch of salt
• 1 1/2 pints pistachio ice cream, slightly softened
• 1 1/2 pints cherry ice cream or berry sorbet, slightly softened
• Swiss Meringue
• Vegetable oil cooking spray

1. Preheat oven to 350 degrees. Line an 8-inch round cake pan with parchment paper, and spray with cooking spray.

2. Combine 3 tablespoons sugar and the egg yolks in bowl of an electric mixer fitted with the whisk attachment; whisk, on medium speed, until pale yellow and thick, about 15 minutes. Add vanilla, and fold in melted chocolate just to combine.

3. In a medium bowl, combine egg whites and pinch of salt in bowl of electric mixer; whip, on medium speed, until frothy. Add remaining 3 tablespoons sugar; beat until stiff. Fold egg whites into the chocolate mixture.

4. Carefully pour batter out into prepared cake pan. Bake until cake is set and top is dull, about 20 minutes. Remove from oven, and let cool on a wire rack.

5. Spray a 5-cup-capacity metal bowl with cooking spray; line with plastic. Pack base of bowl with pistachio ice cream; layer cherry ice cream over pistachio, then finish with another layer of pistachio ice cream (or layer ice creams and sorbets as you desire). Pack firmly, cover surface with plastic wrap, and place in freezer. Freeze until ice cream is very hard, at least 2 hours or up to 24 hours in advance.

6. Place cake on a parchment-lined baking sheet. Remove ice cream from the freezer, and invert bowl over cake. Keep the ice cream covered with plastic wrap, and return ice-cream cake to the freezer.

7. Preheat oven to 500 degrees. Fill a pastry bag, fitted with an Ateco #5 star tip, with meringue; pipe onto ice cream in a decorative fashion, or spoon meringue over ice cream and swirl with a rubber spatula. If ice cream starts to soften, return cake to freezer for 15 minutes.

8. Place in oven, and bake until meringue just starts to brown, 1 to 2 minutes. Remove from oven, and serve immediately.

LOL can it get even more random than this?! =D>

[elf341]

Check the official FIA Stewards report again. I am fairly certain that distinction has already been made.

The Stewards, having received a report from the Race Director, examined video evidence, have
considered the following matter and determine the following:

No / Driver 5 - Sebastian Vettel
Competitor Scuderia Ferrari
Time 17:44
Session Race
Fact Car 5 collided with car 44 in Turn 16.
Offence Breach of Article 27.4 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.
Decision 10 Second Stop and Go penalty.
(3 penalty points awarded, 9 points total for the 12 month period)
Reason The Stewards examined video evidence which showed that car 5 drove alongside and then steered into car 44.

The Stewards decide this manoeuvre was deemed potentially dangerous.

the "car 5 drove alongside AND THEN STEERED into car 44.". Unless cars now days drive itself, I think it's fairly straight forward.

I am not sure why this is even discussed to be honest, because intent or not, he pulled up alongside and as a result of that action (that already wasn't allowed), the next happened.

You're still conflating action and intent. They are different things.

The car driver who mows down a pedestrian from road rage is committing a very different crime from the driver who steps on the accelerator pedal instead of the brake pedal by accident. In both incidents a driver steps on the gas pedal, and a pedestrian is killed. But to a court, the difference is Murder vs Manslaughter: with different sentences.

Obviously, Vettel drove into Hamilton - the traces showed no action on Hamilton's steering wheel but they did on Vettel's.

The action is not under question.

But did he maliciously ram him, or did he lose control while gesticulating?

The intent is important.

[i70q7m7ghw]

The intent is important.

Actually, no it isn't. He is guilty of causing a collision and "potentially dangerous driving" whether there was intent or not. There is no way to prove or disprove his intent, it's pointless to try and do so. The FIA will review the offence and the punishment given at the time and decide if any further action is required, it's as simple as that.

[fiohaa]

I think the reason most of us, me included, find this action repulsive, is because it resembles one of our daily annoyances. It simply is road rage.

In the end it doe not matter whether it is racing, it is just a guy going into a rage fit, harassing others on the road. It serves no function, he doesn't get there faster, it won't win him points. He risks his car and his race just because he cannot control himself.

I tis not about setting an example. By this action Vettel has made himself a proxy for all the maniacs on the road.

But instead of the non-descript honda civic which disappears of the slip road before you have a chance to memorise the plate, you now have a name and a number. That makes him an ideal target for our collective scorn

Its not road rage. They were racing formula one cars, on a race track, and they are competing against each other for lots of money, in a hundreds millions dollar business.

It is not even remotely comparable, other than, they happened to be in machines on 4 wheels, on tarmac. That's about where the similarities with road rage incidents end. They are operating under completely different laws, within the confines of a sport. It is a piece of manufactured entertainment. There is no one daily driving a Honda civic in any of the F1 races i've ever watched.

To somehow conflate the two as being part of the same venn diagram is absurd. What you and many others have done is personalised the situation - made it about you - made it somehow about what you might have encountered on the road, without realising that the situations and contexts are polar worlds apart.

[Manoah2u]

Baked Alaska

• 6 tablespoons sugar
• 3 large egg yolks
• 1 teaspoon pure vanilla extract
• 3 ounces bittersweet chocolate, melted and cooled
• 3 large egg whites, room temperature
• Pinch of salt
• 1 1/2 pints pistachio ice cream, slightly softened
• 1 1/2 pints cherry ice cream or berry sorbet, slightly softened
• Swiss Meringue
• Vegetable oil cooking spray

1. Preheat oven to 350 degrees. Line an 8-inch round cake pan with parchment paper, and spray with cooking spray.

2. Combine 3 tablespoons sugar and the egg yolks in bowl of an electric mixer fitted with the whisk attachment; whisk, on medium speed, until pale yellow and thick, about 15 minutes. Add vanilla, and fold in melted chocolate just to combine.

3. In a medium bowl, combine egg whites and pinch of salt in bowl of electric mixer; whip, on medium speed, until frothy. Add remaining 3 tablespoons sugar; beat until stiff. Fold egg whites into the chocolate mixture.

4. Carefully pour batter out into prepared cake pan. Bake until cake is set and top is dull, about 20 minutes. Remove from oven, and let cool on a wire rack.

5. Spray a 5-cup-capacity metal bowl with cooking spray; line with plastic. Pack base of bowl with pistachio ice cream; layer cherry ice cream over pistachio, then finish with another layer of pistachio ice cream (or layer ice creams and sorbets as you desire). Pack firmly, cover surface with plastic wrap, and place in freezer. Freeze until ice cream is very hard, at least 2 hours or up to 24 hours in advance.

6. Place cake on a parchment-lined baking sheet. Remove ice cream from the freezer, and invert bowl over cake. Keep the ice cream covered with plastic wrap, and return ice-cream cake to the freezer.

7. Preheat oven to 500 degrees. Fill a pastry bag, fitted with an Ateco #5 star tip, with meringue; pipe onto ice cream in a decorative fashion, or spoon meringue over ice cream and swirl with a rubber spatula. If ice cream starts to soften, return cake to freezer for 15 minutes.

8. Place in oven, and bake until meringue just starts to brown, 1 to 2 minutes. Remove from oven, and serve immediately.

may i hug you for this post?

[Phil]

The intent is important.

The intent did not start at the point of impact. It started when he decided to accelerate and move alongside Hamilton. As others have also pointed out, it wasnt one fluid movement until impact, there are clearly multiple stages. One when he moves alongside, the second when the car turns in and hits Hamilton at the side.

Sorry, but such actions have no place and is not considered sporting, no matter how entertaining they may be.

[Manoah2u]

Its not road rage.

correct, it was track rage.

[smellybeard]

The Stewards, having received a report from the Race Director, examined video evidence, have
considered the following matter and determine the following:

No / Driver 5 - Sebastian Vettel
Competitor Scuderia Ferrari
Time 17:44
Session Race
Fact Car 5 collided with car 44 in Turn 16.
Offence Breach of Article 27.4 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.
Decision 10 Second Stop and Go penalty.
(3 penalty points awarded, 9 points total for the 12 month period)
Reason The Stewards examined video evidence which showed that car 5 drove alongside and then steered into car 44.

The Stewards decide this manoeuvre was deemed potentially dangerous.

But did he maliciously ram him, or did he lose control while gesticulating?

"steered into car 44". 'Steered' implies under control, in english.
Dict: guide or control the movement of (a vehicle, vessel, or aircraft), for example by turning a wheel or operating a rudder.

He's done.