Sebastian Vettel has escaped further penalties for his clash with Lewis Hamilton at the most recent Azerbaijani Grand Prix. The German Ferrari driver met with the FIA today in Paris, and admitted full responsibility for the events that occurred.
If it was Hamilton hitting Vettel I've got a feeling you wouldn't be posting that opinion and what exactly has watered f1 for ten years? Two teams dominating for most of it and consistent regulation changes.
why would it change my opinion if it was hamilton hitting vettel?
i literally say in my post 'i don't care' about who hit who...and talk about how i viewed it as entertainment. you are not dealing with the comment and trying to make it about something else.
what exactly has watered f1? Hmm, well where do you want to start?
Trying to artificially induce racing through degrading tyres. Dishing out constant penalities for racing incidents. The turning of circuits into car parks, which brings with it constant issues around track limits.
hence the Specific calls in 2017 to "let the drivers deal with it themselves on track", to actively reduce the handing out of penalties unless absolutely necessary, and to make more durable tyres.
the rule changes themselves back up my claim that the racing was watered down.
And my point was - given the absurd outcries of people about what Vettel did - i am making a claim that fans who are relatively new to it (i.e. come to it in the last decade) have maybe become acclimatised to this 'watered down' reality that when they see something that is aggresive, the equivalent of Vettel essentially punching ham in the pitlane, they are shocked by it and treat it as some outrageous event - losing all site of perspective.
It would change the members that agreed with your first post. We're not shocked at Vettel, we watch F1 to watch racing not crash compilation when drivers turn bad, your crave for emotion and aggression is losing your site of perspective. I could knock some one out playing football would that be entertainment yes but it's got jack to do with football. I agree F1 can be abit placid at times but I want close racing not drivers crashing into each other. What Vettel did was dumb I would of preferred abit of handbags when the race finished, show some emotion within the rules.
as much as it deserves a race ban, i think the proper penalty so it doesn't affect the championship greatly is the removal of points earned in baku. at the same time what would happen if a back marker did this? what penalties would they give aside from a stop and go, a race ban, or both.
i have a feeling with what's been happening with Vettel the last 12mos the FIA will make an example.
as much as it deserves a race ban, i think the proper penalty so it doesn't affect the championship greatly is the removal of points earned in baku. at the same time what would happen if a back marker did this? what penalties would they give aside from a stop and go, a race ban, or both.
Anyone who isn't in contention for the WDC, or in a team in contention for the WCC would have probably been blacked flagged within a few minutes.
My biggest issue with the entire incident is that it has been made known that one of the Stewards convinced the others that a black flag shouldn't be given because it would affect the WDC. They are supposed to be applying the rules fairly and without bias. Who ever the "one" was, should be removed from any future stewarding duties, because they aren't fit for the job.
Yeah and it would be highly inappropriate in the context that there is a point system for exactly that point.
I agree.
Moreover some of the points Vettel has lost in the last 12 months have been subtracted for incidents that now are seen like "normal race incidents" (Sepang 2016 very similar as dynamic with Bottas vs Kimi one at baku 2017 IMHO) so I wonder if Bottas (and other) should have been fined with some points (so no change in the Baku results, but a warning not to exceed with his driving style too much in such situations like a yellow card in football that is why the point system has been created).
as much as it deserves a race ban, i think the proper penalty so it doesn't affect the championship greatly is the removal of points earned in baku. at the same time what would happen if a back marker did this? what penalties would they give aside from a stop and go, a race ban, or both.
Anyone who isn't in contention for the WDC, or in a team in contention for the WCC would have probably been blacked flagged within a few minutes.
My biggest issue with the entire incident is that it has been made known that one of the Stewards convinced the others that a black flag shouldn't be given because it would affect the WDC. They are supposed to be applying the rules fairly and without bias. Who ever the "one" was, should be removed from any future stewarding duties, because they aren't fit for the job.
Absolutely agree, fairly and without bias regardless of driver, team or championship position.
These are supposedly the best circuit racers IN THE WORLD yet there is constantly contact every race weekend, I blame the weak and inconsistent stewarding, they need to penalize these drivers until the get their acts together and before they hurt or kill someone (driver/marshall/spectator). Some say penalizing them will curtail aggression and make the racing boring, I disagree, I think it would mix up the field more giving us even more entertainment, although the points system does need to change to increase the reward/risk ratio towards more aggressive passing.
as much as it deserves a race ban, i think the proper penalty so it doesn't affect the championship greatly is the removal of points earned in baku. at the same time what would happen if a back marker did this? what penalties would they give aside from a stop and go, a race ban, or both.
Anyone who isn't in contention for the WDC, or in a team in contention for the WCC would have probably been blacked flagged within a few minutes.
My biggest issue with the entire incident is that it has been made known that one of the Stewards convinced the others that a black flag shouldn't be given because it would affect the WDC. They are supposed to be applying the rules fairly and without bias. Who ever the "one" was, should be removed from any future stewarding duties, because they aren't fit for the job.
also why was the decision made after lewis had his issue with the headrest and not before?
i forgot what race it was that Danny Sullivan called something that i was fuming over, but that guy should never ever be a guest steward just like jacques v should never ever be a guest steward.
Indeed. plus Hamilton DID have damage to his floor, the crew were trying to fix that damage. as for damage from the side impact, yeah, that was lucky not to. but that's the lamest explenation i've seen in life.
he'll be having his 30th birthday the same day? LOL that'll be nothing imposed to him guaranteed.
or it'll be the brithday present of a lifetime hey bud, we've decided that we'll ban you for the next race. kthxbye
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Maybe they'll just put 10 sec on Vettel's time and put him behind Hamilton in Baku results. The gap in WC will lessen a bit, becoming tighter among Vettel and Hamilton and that's it.
Vettel will get his punishment and it wouldn't be as harsh as a ban or taking away points.
If flying were the language of man, soaring would be its poetry.
It's all about technology!
When you go fast, do not hesitate to go faster!
The problem is, it's about putting the sport in discredit, especially in regards to the FIA's road safety campaigns.
A driver that has had questionable behaviour before, and is on a warning after his insane rant during the Mexican GP,
and saw now problem with that behaviour either 'initially' - is a really really bad example for that.
because a lot of violence on the road - and thus accidents - come from road rage, which is a result of people not properly containing themselves. didn't Max' his dad Jos Verstappen at one point was so mad at his former wife that he actually drove into her? Something like that lies in my memory.
So where will it go from here then, what is next? First Vettel screams and curses vividly, and now he rams into other drivers. what's the next step? Piquet-like situations where one will step out of the car and smash into another driver?
Something must be done and a clear message must be sent out. Not just to Vettel, but to the entire sport.
That means the issue in itself is not neccesarily in regards to the race results or implifications on the championship results or so. It's that with his dangerous - violent you could say - actions, he has brought the sport in discredit, despite having a warning about that.
The board will surely come to the conclusion that he WILL be guilty of bringing the sport in discredit.
the tribunal will not be about the race, or giving a penalty for that in regards to thinking they haven't done enoguh.
It's simply about bringing the sport in discredit, and for that, he will be found guilty - after all, he HAS done that, and he HAS done that before and he HAS recieved a warning and license points on that.
So if he'll get a verdict on that, then what penalty will be given? Will it be ONLY license points, or will it ONLY be a race ban?
Because in regards to the fact he has been warned about this after Mexico, they could decide to give him a race ban JUST for this infraction in Baku anyway, especially in light of Mexico last year. But if they then ALSO decide to add a license point or more to that, then it could be even bigger than we think right now.
He'll get a race ban either way, simple as that.
If he gets 3 points on his license - which is surely the least of punishment they would or should hand out for being fully and solely accountable the infraction 'bringing the sport in discredit' - then that would make a total of 12 license points which would give him a race ban for Austria.
IF the FIA however decides - he deserves also a DSQ from Baku, AND 3 points then he has no points from Baku, putting him on equal points, AND gets a race ban, then he'll be hurt about profoundly. And that might motivate the FIA to do just that - hurting him should move him to concider his behaviour and actions, and subsequently don't behave like that anymore.
Worse would be for him if the FIA actually decides to not only give him a race ban for this infraction, but additionally give him 3 license points , then he'll get a whopping 2 race bans. that means he would miss Austria [you can bet that is gonna happen either way], but ALSO for Silverstone. that would profoundly hurt Vettel, but also have dramatic effects on the championship results. It would still be something the FIA could concider in being non-leniant in cases like this.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Putting aside the who did/didn't for a moment...overtime there does seem to be inconsistency into how stewards apply penalties. Kvyat would be one such case at the Canadian GP , where the severity of penalty was increased mid-race for his failure to observe safety car line by an additional +10s. Back in the day #Red5 was Black-flagged for reversing in the pit lane, after over-shooting (not substantially) his pit box. Witness Baku at Castle Corner, where so many Drivers reversed into the line of approaching cars from the escape road. Then there was #Red44 looking likely to be Black-flagged if he did not stop to change the headrest, where headrest ejection skywards was feared/or driver resisting its release was driving one handed at +200mph down Baku's straights. Then there was the incident involving our modern day #Black5, which has provoked so much discussion here....10s penalty! I think the bigger issue here is penalty consistency, which cannot be helped much by a driver-steward who last drove an F1 car some 34yrs ago!!
I agree that there's an issue over penalty consistency, but...
Witness Baku at Castle Corner, where so many Drivers reversed into the line of approaching cars from the escape road.
That's because there's a rule against reversing in the pit lane, but there's not one against rejoining the track, as long as you don't do it in a way that interferes with other drivers.
Then there was #Red44 looking likely to be Black-flagged if he did not stop to change the headrest
No - not black flagged - black and orange flagged. An entirely different thing.
hey bud, we've decided that we'll ban you for the next race. kthxbye