Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[PlatinumZealot]

For the number of mess ups and faliures they probably chucked an extra spec in the schedule. i reckon the 2.5 is being called the spec 3 becuase it is no longer recognizable as a spec 2 due to all the frankenstein work. The end of season Spec four is likley a huge departure from the original Spec 3 plans.

[GhostF1]

For the number of mess ups and faliures they probably chucked an extra spec in the schedule. i reckon the 2.5 is being called the spec 3 becuase it is no longer recognizable as a spec 2 due to all the frankenstein work. The end of season Spec four is likley a huge departure from the original Spec 3 plans.

It's possible, although Spec 3 sounds much better to the press and even to McLaren than 2.5..

[HPD]

Otmar Szafnauer

- "What I found was that the guys who had worked in the third generation project [from late 1990s] who had come from the second generation [1980s] had very good knowledge of F1 and what it takes," said Szafnauer, who is now COO of the Force India F1 team.
- "They were able to put the programme together in order to compete at the highest level.
- "I remember when Takeo Kiuchi, who was [Ayrton] Senna and [Alain] Prost's race engineer came in, within two or three years we had the lightest and most powerful V10 engine.
- "He knew what it took it and he did it. We ended up with 968bhp and 88kg, which was just a little bit lighter than the BMW and a little bit more powerful. They did that.
- "What they are lacking this time around is that experience of what it takes. [F1 project chief Yusuke] Hasegawa was there [previously], but he was a controls engineer, and I am not sure they have the strength in depth of experienced F1 engineers working on the project.
- "Back then [in the previous era] they had loads of them and they knew what it took. If you don't have that at the beginning, it takes time to get that.
- "But they are on their way of getting that experience of what it takes, and it would be a shame of them to part company with McLaren as opposed to sticking it out and making it good."

He thinks that with Honda having been able to get it right before, that the factory location is not as big a problem as its staff understanding what effort is needed to succeed.
- "It wasn't a problem before," he said. "All we did in the UK was assemble the engines. All the design, development and manufacturer happened in Japan and it didn't have an impact.
- "You need to understand the task and how difficult it is. The other thing with Honda is that they got a late start.
- "All the other engine manufacturers, when they started talking about the new regulations, the first thing they did was start on a single cylinder engine programme knowing it would be a turbo charged V6. So to catch all that up is hard, and it doesn't happen overnight.
- "You have to give Honda time – and for sure they will do it. They are smart engineers with all the resources, so for sure they will do it. They just need the experience – and that is now happening, they are getting it."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-n ... ll-926191/

[MrPotatoHead]

honda said it's spect 3, but I think still is 2.5, as wazari said

I'm pretty sure it's called whatever Honda call it...
If they want to call it "Spec Poop" - then it's Spec Poop, not what people here call it.

[HPD]

[MrPotatoHead]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEDaoShWsAAEnHq.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEDaoTyW0AAh3L0.jpg

Looks a little different for sure doesn't it?

[HPD]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEDaoShWsAAEnHq.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEDaoTyW0AAh3L0.jpg

Looks a little different for sure doesn't it?

Yes .. every day looks more like a PU Mercedes
(is joke)

[Singabule]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEDaoShWsAAEnHq.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEDaoTyW0AAh3L0.jpg

Looks a little different for sure doesn't it?

Yes .. every day looks more like a PU Mercedes
(is joke)

If the engine is not badged as honda, im pretty sure MCL cant recognize between Those two, until the long straight

[Andres125sx]

Otmar Szafnauer

- "What I found was that the guys who had worked in the third generation project [from late 1990s] who had come from the second generation [1980s] had very good knowledge of F1 and what it takes," said Szafnauer, who is now COO of the Force India F1 team.
- "They were able to put the programme together in order to compete at the highest level.
- "I remember when Takeo Kiuchi, who was [Ayrton] Senna and [Alain] Prost's race engineer came in, within two or three years we had the lightest and most powerful V10 engine.
- "He knew what it took it and he did it. We ended up with 968bhp and 88kg, which was just a little bit lighter than the BMW and a little bit more powerful. They did that.
- "What they are lacking this time around is that experience of what it takes. [F1 project chief Yusuke] Hasegawa was there [previously], but he was a controls engineer, and I am not sure they have the strength in depth of experienced F1 engineers working on the project.
- "Back then [in the previous era] they had loads of them and they knew what it took. If you don't have that at the beginning, it takes time to get that.
- "But they are on their way of getting that experience of what it takes, and it would be a shame of them to part company with McLaren as opposed to sticking it out and making it good."

He thinks that with Honda having been able to get it right before, that the factory location is not as big a problem as its staff understanding what effort is needed to succeed.
- "It wasn't a problem before," he said. "All we did in the UK was assemble the engines. All the design, development and manufacturer happened in Japan and it didn't have an impact.
- "You need to understand the task and how difficult it is. The other thing with Honda is that they got a late start.
- "All the other engine manufacturers, when they started talking about the new regulations, the first thing they did was start on a single cylinder engine programme knowing it would be a turbo charged V6. So to catch all that up is hard, and it doesn't happen overnight.
- "You have to give Honda time – and for sure they will do it. They are smart engineers with all the resources, so for sure they will do it. They just need the experience – and that is now happening, they are getting it."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-n ... ll-926191/

Thanks, there´s a bit more down the article, about the speculated switch to McLaren Mercedes

When asked about his thoughts on McLaren potentially switching to the same Mercedes engines that Force India runs, Szafnauer suggested that there could actually come a point where his outfit regretted his rivals not doing so.

"I was saying to someone recently that maybe in two years time when Honda, who are very capable, get it all together, we will wish they [McLaren] had switched to Mercedes!

"You cannot be too quick to judge and make a knee-jerk reaction. They [Honda] could be just on the cusp of getting it right."

I´d change that last "could" with a "should" tough

[FrukostScones]

Honda has the loudest and quietest engine

During the last 20 laps Hülkenberg had enough opportunity to watch the cars of his opponents. "Mercedes, Ferrari and also Red Bull drive in a class." Also the McLaren makes a good figure in the curves. But only optical. The Honda engine is not a feast for the ears, and Hülkenberg wondered how Alonso and Vandoorne were able to finish at all.

In the partial load range, the Honda V6 is the loudest according to Nico Hülkenberg.

Acoustically, the Honda V6-Turbo stands out from all other engines. "In the partial load range in the slow corners, it is by far the loudest PU. It burbles and rattles like a truck. You marvel at the fact that the PU survives a race. When the drivers then go on the throttle, the PU suddenly becomes quiet. You almost can not hear the PU anymore. "

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 02374.html

[Jerrycobra]

Honda has the loudest and quietest engine

During the last 20 laps Hülkenberg had enough opportunity to watch the cars of his opponents. "Mercedes, Ferrari and also Red Bull drive in a class." Also the McLaren makes a good figure in the curves. But only optical. The Honda engine is not a feast for the ears, and Hülkenberg wondered how Alonso and Vandoorne were able to finish at all.

In the partial load range, the Honda V6 is the loudest according to Nico Hülkenberg.

Acoustically, the Honda V6-Turbo stands out from all other engines. "In the partial load range in the slow corners, it is by far the loudest PU. It burbles and rattles like a truck. You marvel at the fact that the PU survives a race. When the drivers then go on the throttle, the PU suddenly becomes quiet. You almost can not hear the PU anymore. "

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 02374.html

So clearly honda is using a diesel engine with jake brakes, explains the torque twisting the MGU-h apart.

[PlatinumZealot]

That is interesting. Why would the engine be noisier it low speed?

[godlameroso]

Probably cylinder de-activation, aggressive MGU-K harvesting mode to make up for the MGU-H shortfall, or vice versa.

You can try it on your own road car, just unplug one of the fuel injectors.

[GhostF1]

Probably cylinder de-activation, aggressive MGU-K harvesting mode to make up for the MGU-H shortfall, or vice versa.

You can try it on your own road car, just unplug one of the fuel injectors.

Agree with this. I think Nico is commenting on the cylinder shutdown technique Honda use.

https://youtu.be/m59DZkQo5Ac

Watch this 30 second video (one of my personal favourites, I've analysed this wayyyy too many times). You can actually see Nico and a couple Renault blokes taking a good old geez/listen as it drives past.

Stoffel drives out, hits neutral, we hear the half cylinder scenario, he re-engages gear, the Honda does a little restart scenario, jumping up revs a couple of times, then he takes off. It's pretty unique.

I think this sort of thing is what he would be speaking of.

[Jerrycobra]

I brought up this video a few times before, even last years RA616H created quite the idle noise that smooths out at throttle

https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/786503350980341760