Valtteri Bottas has won the Austrian Grand Prix, head lead the race virtually from start to finish. It wasn't all that straightforward however, with Vettel threatening to pass in the closing stages. While the Ferrari driver settled for second, Daniel Ricciardo completes the podium after fending off Lewis Hamilton on a charge.
Where on earth did I complain about Seb's race?TAG wrote: ↑11 Jul 2017, 15:30The old geezer that used to run the show changed the qualifying format last year and spent a long time suggesting sprinklers and you're blaming the Americans?
Once again we're left discussing something long after the race because Vettel's perception didn't agree with real world.
You brought up the Spanish gp and got your answer. Vettel was going to be caught and passed either way. Maybe not if his team hadn't cost him a huge amount of time by making a very obvious wrong decision. Either way, it wasn't remotely comparable to what Ferrari did with Raikkonen this past Sunday.Juzh wrote: ↑11 Jul 2017, 16:37I suggest you rewatch spanish gp with live timings to see just how much time vettel lost behind bottas. Anyway, this is not the right thread for this conversation and frankly it's pointless to have any when it's clear you're just spitting nonsense and fanboy ching chang.Shrieker wrote: ↑11 Jul 2017, 14:49Isn't that the race vettel was handed his ar$e with 22 laps to go ? That was going to be Hamilton's either way. And Ferrari fuked their own man up by not pitting under the VSC. Vettel had made short work of Bottas within 1 or 2 laps iirc. And how many extra laps did Ferrari run Raikkonen on Sunday just to block Hamilton and Bottas ?
Other sports have a tolerance too. So it is fair once the athlete does not break a particular threshold.Big Mangalhit wrote: ↑11 Jul 2017, 13:32Yes so the final verdict is that Bottas jump the lights but within the tolerances so it is legal. What I still don't get completely is where are those tolerances written in the rules, and also it seems kinda of too much power to FIA to be able to choose who is penalised and who doesn't whiteout no further proof, I which they showed this data na telemetry they had, even if they can't disclose the secret tolerance value.
Also the tolerance limit rule is clearly with the intention of adjustment but was used in this case to jump the lights, is it not against the spirit of the rule? Much like the flexing wing of the RB which still passed the deflection rule tests but was overruled when they found composite layering with the intention of flexing under vertical load
IMO the wording of the rule should be the only thing that counts and thus the jump start even if lucky should be legal, was a won gamble. I just wanted to see where this allegedly tolerance is written in the rules and a better showing of data that proofs this, instead of this nonsense 0.201s reaction time that just seems that was made up on the fly.
BTW here is a fun game someone already created that you can try to predict the lights as did Bottas, at least for me I found it very very hard to have such a start. Just for fun obviously:
www.f1-start.glitch.me
YES,,,Yes he moved but his wheels didn't cross the line or in drag racing speak, he didn't break the beams by staging shallow for more roll out.Bottas moved 0.06s BEFORE the lights went out.
Agreed.
Not complaining about that. I just wanted more information you know. Like analysis video, showing how they measure it graph... anything. Fia should take these opportunities to publish these things and get closer to the publicPlatinumZealot wrote: ↑12 Jul 2017, 00:47Other sports have a tolerance too. So it is fair once the athlete does not break a particular threshold.
In a nutshell yes, but it just goes to show how ridicioulus the tolerances are, as in waaaay too big. This needs to be fixed.
I honnestly don't see a problem. Bottas was at the outer limits of the tollerances, chances of something like this happening again are very very slim.
There is a tolerance to account for the cars bouncing forward when 1st gear is engaged. This can be a couple of centimeters. The tolerance is not for sensor inaccuracy.Phil wrote: ↑11 Jul 2017, 13:54I think they are referring to the tolerances of the system. It's all electronically linked to the sensors and the lights. Obviously, the system has some level of tolerances. I'd assume the sensor triggers once the car roles beyond a certain point (the point being the lines of the box). Either way, the stewards wouldn't have much to say or do as they don't determine the tolerance but just accept the tolerance and limitation of the system.Big Mangalhit wrote: ↑11 Jul 2017, 13:32Yes so the final verdict is that Bottas jump the lights but within the tolerances so it is legal. What I still don't get completely is where are those tolerances written in the rules, and also it seems kinda of too much power to FIA to be able to choose who is penalised and who doesn't whiteout no further proof, I which they showed this data na telemetry they had, even if they can't disclose the secret tolerance value.
If a driver jumps the start, it will trigger an event to the stewards/Whiting who then will issue a penalty. I'd say it similar to the system that monitors the speed through the pitlane. If a car is too quick, it triggers an event and it is always a penalty, as the system only knows two states: On/Off, too fast/ok etc.
The default tolerances however work differently as in "reaction time faster than humanly possible equals false start"PlatinumZealot wrote: ↑12 Jul 2017, 00:47
Other sports have a tolerance too. So it is fair once the athlete does not break a particular threshold.
It's not about the box. It's about movement. You could park your car 50cm "too far behind" and then start rolling slightly to get a better start. By your definition as long as you do not leave the box you'd be fine. That's not the case. If you park your car 50cm too far behind and move 10cm, you will be penalised.
The .201 data that FOM showed peaked my conspiracy theorist side, it didn't look accurate to the situation at all (and it wasn't).WaikeCU wrote: ↑11 Jul 2017, 10:42I'm going to say something rather controversial, but it's my opinion:
The Championship is managed by management of F1. Despite what Seb did in Baku and how/when they penalized him is food for controversy. When Lewis had his headrest issue and needed to pit, Seb got his penalty at the exact moment when Lewis was pitting. I mean timing really?
Now, if Bottas didn't jumpstart, they show stats of Bottas vs Seb's reaction time that say Bottas didn't jump and the images have shown otherwise, then I'm starting to question the sport generally. The reason I think is that because Lewis is playing catch up all race and Bottas is leading Seb, F1 management wants to 'manage' the gap between Seb and Lewis, their stars, the faces of F1 this season. This made me think. Is it actually being fixed?
Some have reported that even though Lewis has had a grid penalty, Seb and Kimi will have theirs sooner or later, as they are on their last turbocharger. Something tells me their turbochargers will miraculously stay intact throughout the season.
We don't want to hand the Championship on a plate to Merc and Lewis or Bottas right?
F1 is now partly managed by Americans and Americans like to make a great show out of anything I believe. Surely the title must go down to the wire and be decided at the end of the season, favorably the final race.
The people in race control and the broadcast truck aren't smart enough to pull off anything that complicated.
You either jump the start or you don't. There's an electronic system in place to detect this the same way that there was a system put in place to respect track limits at some circuits last year. What's there to understand beyond that?
