Ferrari halt 2005 car development

[Micky]

The BBC are reporting that Ferrari have scrapped there new car development in light of the new technical regulations http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 923983.stm

Anyone else know if other teams have done this?

I would have thought they would start changing it to suit the new regulations for 2005

[bernard]

This is pretty old news. Anyway, other teams haven't really started designing next years car, only ferrari, because both championships are practically theirs, so they stopped improving this years car and started on the next one, which would naturally have been just an evolution of this years great car, but now they can't do that when the aerodynamic and other rulechanges make signigicant changes to the cars.
Next years engines, by the way, have been i the drawing board for something like 3 months already.

[Reca]

Anyway, other teams haven't really started designing next years car

Most of teams start the design of the new car in March, April. The top teams actually already have design groups investigating solutions for the 2006 cars.

Next years engines, by the way, have been i the drawing board for something like 3 months already.

Most of 2005 engines are already on the dyno or will be in the next weeks and that means that the design started at least 8-9 months ago. They theoretically should start in a few weeks the design of the 2006 engine if only they knew the new rules... BTW, most of them already made preliminary designs for different solutions for a V8.

[bernard]

Most of 2005 engines are already on the dyno or will be in the next weeks and that means that the design started at least 8-9 months ago.

I guess you know better than my source, some guy Norbert Haug, who a couple of months ago stated that they had been designing next years engine already for two months. Lets not confuse engine with gearbox.

Most of teams start the design of the new car in March, April. The top teams actually already have design groups investigating solutions for the 2006 cars.

But surely this isn't the same as designing the car. Other teams (except renault I think) will only start designing their next years car in the coming months, as their focus is in the current car. Ferrari said it will no longer develop the car, and therefore can focus all it's attention on the next years racer instead. Even Adrian Newey said developing two cars at the same time is a hell, and that he doesn't want to do it again. The best time for desgning the car, according to him, is the winterbreak. Naturally they are sketching and trying some ideas as we speak, but they don't design the actual car, whereas ferrari was already designing their actual car.

[Alic01]

I do not know the answer to this question so please forgive my ignorence. If someone could enlighten me i would be most grateful.

I would assume that teams would have two concurrent projects running at all times, one team working on next years design while another team develop this years car. I would guess that it is only the top ranking managers who have inclusion in both teams allowing the majority of the workers to focus on either one project or the other.

As far as engines go i do remember that last year Williams ran this years engine in the car for the first time in the closing stages of the season so their engineers must have been working on it since at least the start of the season.

Am i right in thinking that a lot of next years car development includes things which may have been discovered only weeks after the release this years car but which cannot be implemented within the constraints of the current package. I think the 19B is a good demo of this theory. I would guess that to a certain extent this applies to engines as well.

[Monstrobolaxa]

Renault works in a way that they start developing/drawing their new car the week the previous years car is launched...this means the 2005 car has been on the drawing board since March!

About engine and gearboxes....usually the get on the dynos in July! This years BMW engine was first tested on the Dyno on the 28th of July 2003 and hit the track 2 weeks later...though BMW never admited that it went to the track so early (and to my idea it's too early on to put it on the track). Ferraris engine was on the dyno on the first half of August 2003. According to the interviews I've read the big teams start their cars in July/August some even in May...the smaller teams usually start them in September.

[scarbs]

All teams start the design of their new car around March\April, at this stage the design is largely the agreement of the aerodynamic philosophy and the main mechanical layout (i.e length of the chassis, fuel cell, engine gearbox etc). From here the detail design can start, with the gearbox and monocoque the first of the major items to have their design frozen so as not to upset the design of subsequent detail parts.
Engines will be in design for around two years before their first race, so most of the 2005 units are already in development. Hence engine development will have probably already thought about mileage and now rules the are firmer they can follow that path exclusively.
I doubt any physical parts exist from any 2005 car yet, only simulations and windtunnel models. However the far reaching aero changes for next year would make teams want to rethink their philosophies, as the smaller diffuser and raised front wing will require changes to the monocoque and gearbox. Whether teams will delay the 05 car and build an interim car for the opening races, or choose to rush through a compromised car based on design work completed before the rules changed will be interesting. (McLaren a 19C and 20 to race in 05?)

[Reca]

Hi Scarbs, can I ask you a couple of things ?
Do you have some comments from the designers about the new FIA proposed aero rules (especially the one regarding the moving of the upper wing elements 15 cm forward), what kind of limitation they (and not the FIA...) do expect ?
And the other one, it’s OT but I was thinking about it right now so... From the tv images of the Kimi rear wing failure it looked like the two upper elements of the wing are connected to the endplates only in the first 50-60% of chord of the main element, do you know if the flap is connected to the RWEP with some bolts or it’s attached only to the main element, if the latter, it would pass the FIA tests for flexibility (reason I ask is that I don’t know if they do make a specific test on the single element or there’s only the one on the whole wing) ?
Thank you.

[scarbs]

As yet I don’t have any responses from the teams regarding the revised rules, I don’t think enough detail has been made public to be sure the full impact (I guess the teams have the full detail?). Moving the rear wing forwards is one issue, I would suggest that the cut down diffuser is the biggest issue, then the raised front wing. Both will have impacts on chassis and gearbox design, which is critical at this stage.

Rear wing flaps are attached in two different ways; the main (Fixed) plane is bolted to the end plate via two or three fasteners each side, not just towards the front. Secondly the rear (adjustable) flap, pivots at its leading edge via pin set into the endplate, then the adjustment is made either by fastening the endplate to a series of holes in the endplate, or more commonly now via a threaded adjusters set into the endplate (similar to the front wing adjuster), this allows a finer range of adjustment. However this set up does not rigidly fasten the flap to the endplate (i.e one endplate moves outwards the flap falls out! Hence when Kimis main plane failed on the straight it took the flap out with it.

Wing flex tested pull the trailing edge of the flap downwards and rearwards, this both proves the flap doesn’t flex or the whole wing assembly.