2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

[GPR-A duplicate2]

only the fact that the Merc guy won on those occasions, therefore it was "exiting"

This what happens when you bury your head in such deep rooted fanboyism ---,

Poor argument.

A stupid argument deserves a rude response. Thanks.

But when a highly faster car gets stuck behind a far more slower car, that is farce.

Which car was highly faster?

Once again, you jumped the queue and started responding. I started my post with being generic on why Monaco, Australia and Hungary shouldn't be there anymore. Please go through that.
1. In 2013, the slower Mercedes car won the Monaco and a faster Red Bull stuck behind.
1. In 2014, Nico got stuck behind the JEV and ultimately lost his race.
2. In 2016 and in 2017, Lewis stuck behind a slower Toro rosso and a slower Red Bull in Australia and lost the race.
3.
3. Do you imagine what would have happened if Vettel would have met the same reliability issue in China, Malaysia, Silverstone or USA?

I can go on with instances like this. Again, my point was generic on how the faster car gets stuck behind a slower car and loses out in Australia, Monaco and Hungary.

[Phil]

These are all useless arguments. In F1 you pit when the similar on pace car behind pits. There is nothing to win when you don't. There is only much to loose when you either fail to pit in time or if you have a bad pitstop.

I really do not understand, why you think it is a good idea to compromise the gap to Bottas. If anything goes wrong during the stop, you need every second of a gap. And Ferrari had more than enough bad pitstops this year.

This precisely suggests the difference between a team like Mercedes, who in the past has enabled the drivers precisely more freedom when trying to 'beat each other', either by offering an alternative strategy, or on various occasions where the car behind could try to make the difference with staying out longer if beneficial (because 1st pit was reserved for the leading driver).

The question is really simple: If the situations had been reversed and Kimi had been the leading car and Vettel behind and quicker, but unable to pass, do you honestly think they would have brought him in immediately with that kind of margin behind? Sorry, I don't believe that for a second.

As noted above in my post; It made more sense for Ferrari to keep the order as it protected the "weaker" car and had the additional benefit of it being in the good for the WDC too. It also spared them having Kimi ahead and be confronted of the headache of considering switching those positions later and then getting criticized for it.

[Santozini]

This what happens when you bury your head in such deep rooted fanboyism ---,

Poor argument.

A stupid argument deserves a rude response. Thanks.

You take this way too seriously. For someone who accuses others of Fanboyism every other post, you really know how to hide your colours.

Have some sour grapes during the summer break, it will do you some good.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Have some sour grapes during the summer break, it will do you some good.

Experienced man you are, I guess ! I will trust your experience.

[basti313]

Have some sour grapes during the summer break, it will do you some good.

Experienced man you are, I guess ! I will trust your experience.

Well he has a point...accusing others for fanboyism and openly showing the hate for drivers is a bit strange.

I had the impression that with the withdrawal of evil Rosberg your view on 2017 F1 should be rose like a Force India...but it is not???

[WaikeCU]

come guys, enough throwing your handbags.

Nice to see Vandoorne scoring his first point finish. I wonder what would've been if he didn't overshot his garage during his pitstop, would he have caught Ocon?

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Well he has a point...accusing others for fanboyism and openly showing the hate for drivers is a bit strange.

Can you show me a post of mine, where I displayed "hate for drivers"? Have you observed something? Most people who hate me and find me dreadful, is "blind" fanboys of one team for whom everything about that team is RIGHT AND GREAT.

Someone accused me of saying bad words for "Italians" and when challenged, did not come back with a single post of mine. I hope you do.

[basti313]

These are all useless arguments. In F1 you pit when the similar on pace car behind pits. There is nothing to win when you don't. There is only much to loose when you either fail to pit in time or if you have a bad pitstop.

I really do not understand, why you think it is a good idea to compromise the gap to Bottas. If anything goes wrong during the stop, you need every second of a gap. And Ferrari had more than enough bad pitstops this year.

This precisely suggests the difference between a team like Mercedes, who in the past has enabled the drivers precisely more freedom when trying to 'beat each other',

Come on...you can not use Formula Mercedes as an argument. They could simply pit whenever they wanted, they were just waiting for the 25sec gap to P3.
On the other hand when the Mercs were driving their own race, behind the same applied: When P4 was pitting, P3 was pitting one lap later in a usual race.

The question is really simple: If the situations had been reversed and Kimi had been the leading car and Vettel behind and quicker, but unable to pass, do you honestly think they would have brought him in immediately with that kind of margin behind? Sorry, I don't believe that for a second.

Yes. If they want to switch positions, they just tell them to switch positions. There is simply no need for compromises and bringing one car in danger from behind. I am 100% sure, that Ferrari has a "Multi21" code for Kimi.

[TAG]

The points and counterpoints here are missing or choosing to miss the inherent difference between the two team philosophies. Kimi didn't attack because he's wearing a collar. An advantage Vettel is accustomed to. and would have come out on the losing end yesterday if he didn't have it.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

These are all useless arguments. In F1 you pit when the similar on pace car behind pits. There is nothing to win when you don't. There is only much to loose when you either fail to pit in time or if you have a bad pitstop.

I really do not understand, why you think it is a good idea to compromise the gap to Bottas. If anything goes wrong during the stop, you need every second of a gap. And Ferrari had more than enough bad pitstops this year.

This precisely suggests the difference between a team like Mercedes, who in the past has enabled the drivers precisely more freedom when trying to 'beat each other',

Come on...you can not use Formula Mercedes as an argument. They could simply pit whenever they wanted, they were just waiting for the 25sec gap to P3.
On the other hand when the Mercs were driving their own race, behind the same applied: When P4 was pitting, P3 was pitting one lap later in a usual race.

Did we see drivers' from a team racing each other in 2004, when the car was the MOST dominant? We saw team mates racing each in 1988, 1989, 2014, 2015 and 2016 when the team had the most dominant car.

[godlameroso]

come guys, enough throwing your handbags.

Nice to see Vandoorne scoring his first point finish. I wonder what would've been if he didn't overshot his garage during his pitstop, would he have caught Ocon?

Probably finish behind Sainz. In other news, testing is going to be very hot temperature wise. Ambient temperature as high as 37 degrees, talk about torture, drinks bottle will be hot tea.

[motobaleno]

I'm pretty much satisfied with this race.
pretty much.

[Phil]

Come on...you can not use Formula Mercedes as an argument. They could simply pit whenever they wanted, they were just waiting for the 25sec gap to P3.
On the other hand when the Mercs were driving their own race, behind the same applied: When P4 was pitting, P3 was pitting one lap later in a usual race.

Why not? Didn't Mercedes this race prove that in NOT Mercedes Formula, they were happy for their drivers to switch back again?

And you are still ignoring the blatant obvious: The argument was never about what benefits Ferrari, it was only about in who's interest was it to pit Kimi one lap after Vettel with that gap of 4.5s - 4.8s behind to Bottas.

I already highlighted why that lap that Kimi produced the lap he was called in was special and within the range I said (meaning that the offset to Bottas on fresh tires would be less). Kimi came on the radio and questioned as well, why he was called in already.

Yes. If they want to switch positions, they just tell them to switch positions. There is simply no need for compromises and bringing one car in danger from behind. I am 100% sure, that Ferrari has a "Multi21" code for Kimi.

The Ferrari of today is a lot more conscious on how it is perceived in the media. Coming out and out rightly ordering that one driver to stand down isn't exactly good moral wise either, especially if that driver has a huge F1 following.

[mertol]

Ferrari have 1.5 drivers. It's only natural the half driver will obey orders.

[diego.liv]

GPR-A I'm still sure to have read that Italian post, can't find it with the forum search function again, okay maybe it wasn't you, I have done doubts. Highly likely that Ferrari would have switched Sebastian and Kimi were there positions inverted. It's not that much worth to talk about 2014-16 Merc management of the drivers, equal treatment and such..they were the only one who could win the championship. Plus, they were closer in talent and skills than Schumacher and (insert #2 driver)