UK to end hydrocarbon-fuelled cars in 2040

[Greg Locock]

PVs on your house's roof to charge an EV is a pipe dream, for several reasons. Many people live in flats, so they don't have roof space for any number of panels. They don't have a secure parking place, so they can't run a charger.

Even in suburbia In a year my maxed out system will generate 6000 kWh. Great, that's 30000 km at 200 Wh/km. But in winter I'd only average 34 km every day.

Using a second battery (a) doubles your battery cost and (b) means you need somewhere to keep it and (c) incurs additional losses when you charge the car from the battery.

Pie in the sky poorly thought out nonsense, as usual.

[FW17]

Promotion of hybrid is just way of Euro Zone to remain relevant in the car industry.

People in California commute longer distances than anyone in Europe, the EV works fine for them.

EV is going to destroy the IC engine coz half of the drivers are women and they don't give a --- for an IC engine and an EV is far more user friendly. Of the other half most, men, quiet a few have become sensitive to the environment and would prefer an EV.

So with 75% target audience for an EV, once price comes down, there is no sense for manufacturers to build and SERVICE IC engine cars.

[FW17]

PVs on your house's roof to charge an EV is a pipe dream, for several reasons. Many people live in flats, so they don't have roof space for any number of panels. They don't have a secure parking place, so they can't run a charger.

Even in suburbia In a year my maxed out system will generate 6000 kWh. Great, that's 30000 km at 200 Wh/km. But in winter I'd only average 34 km every day.

Using a second battery (a) doubles your battery cost and (b) means you need somewhere to keep it and (c) incurs additional losses when you charge the car from the battery.

Pie in the sky poorly thought out nonsense, as usual.

Why not sell power to the grid and take credit for it?

People with second homes (most) out of the city can install PV and supply to grid and use the credits in their city home?

[Greg Locock]

Sure, but that doesn't solve the problem that in winter nobody's solar cells are producing much more than a trickle, so you still need conventional power stations of some sort.

[Chene_Mostert]

Promotion of hybrid is just way of Euro Zone to remain relevant in the car industry.

People in California commute longer distances than anyone in Europe, the EV works fine for them.

EV is going to destroy the IC engine coz half of the drivers are women and they don't give a --- for an IC engine and an EV is far more user friendly. Of the other half most, men, quiet a few have become sensitive to the environment and would prefer an EV.

So with 75% target audience for an EV, once price comes down, there is no sense for manufacturers to build and SERVICE IC engine cars.

I don't understand your statement, how is a EV more user friendly?

[Andres125sx]

yes Andres I did ignore your question(s)
because I thought the inevitable argument over more demand for fossil-fuel generated electricity is better in 'my' old thread 'Energy Distribution'

[...]

the answer you asked for .....
the publicly-funded TV companies (BBC and fellow traveller Channel 4) and all the liberal newspapers and Govt advice constantly for 30 years .....
told us the diesel was 'much more environmentally-friendly' - famous words parroted endlessly by beardy-weirdy Chris Goffey
(presenter of 'Top Gear' for the years of its relentless suicide as consumerist TG, this leading to the car-enthusiast TG of today)
tax on diesel fuel was lower (at that time) and car licence fee was made lower for diesels (this based on CO2 emission)

the real reason for this was the collapse of the market for heating oil as Europe suddenly had indigenous gas from the North Sea
French and German etc oil refineries being more politically influenced re unemployment than commercially influenced

Thanks for sharing, didn´t know as here in Spain we didn´t suffer that PR BS

(judging by your naive point no 5 in your post before this one, my thought was right, you seem lacking in energy numeracy)

If you notice, I said it´s possible, I didn´t say it´s easy or affordable, only that it´s possible, wich IMHO is awesome as few decades back this possibility was laugable.

[Andres125sx]

Point 1 I agree with.
point 2 I will contest (never had mechanical failure on car) and add electronic reliability concerns ( got delayed once and stranded once due to electronic problems).
Point 3 I have never had to sell a car due to high wear on engine, only a need for change, so I question that advantage.
Point 4. Perfect weight distribution is not limited to Electric only.
Point 5 I do agree with, but how many liters do you need to save to offset cost?

How old are you? Fair question, I´ve seen ICEs failing from a brand new BMW breaking apart to Citroën suffering all sort of problems, so someone stating he´s never seen an ICE failure can only be because he´s too young and has been very lucky till now

And please, be serious. If you don´t own your cars until the point wear start showing that does not mean wear does not exist

[Andres125sx]

a good read https://electronics.stackexchange.com/q ... f-a-dc-one

remember that in the UK or India EVs mostly run on fossil or nuclear fuel and are no more than 30% efficient

EVs reward slow driving more than ICEVs do - you too can be a range hog !

Corrected that for you, as that´s not the case here in Spain, or in Holland, Sweeden....


And yes I agree, you should blame UK government because of using so much fossil fuels and ignoring emissions but who knows, maybe their plan is a huge change for 2040

[Chene_Mostert]

Point 1 I agree with.
point 2 I will contest (never had mechanical failure on car) and add electronic reliability concerns ( got delayed once and stranded once due to electronic problems).
Point 3 I have never had to sell a car due to high wear on engine, only a need for change, so I question that advantage.
Point 4. Perfect weight distribution is not limited to Electric only.
Point 5 I do agree with, but how many liters do you need to save to offset cost?

How old are you? Fair question, I´ve seen ICEs failing from a brand new BMW breaking apart to Citroën suffering all sort of problems, so someone stating he´s never seen an ICE failure can only be because he´s too young and has been very lucky till now

And please, be serious. If you don´t own your cars until the point wear start showing that does not mean wear does not exist

So you are suggesting that EV will never ever fail? 100% reliability from the word go?
Manufacturing variation resulting in potential failures magically disappear?
Also, I am not stating what I have seen, but what I have experienced, so better reliability as an selling point just does not do it for me.

So. Come on, be realistic, you are a big boy, you should know better.

[Andres125sx]

IC will continue well into the future, What more does electric have to offer?

1- A flat torque curve wich ICEs will never match
2- Mechanical simplicity wich means much extended inspection services and reliability wich simply can´t be compared
3- Much much much higher lifespan. Electric motors don´t suffer any wear, replace the battery (wich will be a lot more affordable in a near future), and motor bearings as much (wich is fairly easy and shouldn´t be necessary) and you get a brand new power unit performing exactly as new
4- Better weight distribution so better handling
5- It´s possible to install some renewable energies at home (solar panels, wind turbines for particulars...) and become self-sufficient. Then you can laugh at home while watching petrol prices going higher and higher


And take into account I´ve only talked about user advantages, didn´t even mention anything about emissions

The petrol prices go down the more EV come into being due to supply and demand.

EV, by its very existence guarantees the continued lifespan of IC vehicles.

Nice wishfull thinking, but something wich is limited and need to be used for loads of things (asphalt, plastics, gas, diesel for ships, kerosene for airliners.....) will never see a price drop. Even if a half of the worldwide cars become electric.

[Andres125sx]

Promotion of hybrid is just way of Euro Zone to remain relevant in the car industry.

People in California commute longer distances than anyone in Europe, the EV works fine for them.

EV is going to destroy the IC engine coz half of the drivers are women and they don't give a --- for an IC engine and an EV is far more user friendly. Of the other half most, men, quiet a few have become sensitive to the environment and would prefer an EV.

So with 75% target audience for an EV, once price comes down, there is no sense for manufacturers to build and SERVICE IC engine cars.

I don't understand your statement, how is a EV more user friendly?

1- No need to warm up (so less failures from people who don´t care about taking care of his car)
2- Limited gear changes if any but the car always react
3- They´re quiet and smooth and less stresful
4- Less restrictions when going into the city


Yes I like lists

[Chene_Mostert]

Promotion of hybrid is just way of Euro Zone to remain relevant in the car industry.

People in California commute longer distances than anyone in Europe, the EV works fine for them.

EV is going to destroy the IC engine coz half of the drivers are women and they don't give a --- for an IC engine and an EV is far more user friendly. Of the other half most, men, quiet a few have become sensitive to the environment and would prefer an EV.

So with 75% target audience for an EV, once price comes down, there is no sense for manufacturers to build and SERVICE IC engine cars.

I don't understand your statement, how is a EV more user friendly?

1- No need to warm up (so less failures from people who don´t care about taking care of his car)
2- Limited gear changes if any but the car always react
3- They´re quiet and smooth and less stresful
4- Less restrictions when going into the city


Yes I like lists

You are not convincing me to make the switch on the more user friendly pitch.

Point 1. I start and drive, even the manual in my car suggests this. No "warmup needed" and what is awesome is that my rev limit is reduced automatically when cold, this Is to help out those people that don't know.

Point 2. I normally select D and as long as I need to move forward, I keep it there. If I need to go backwards, I select R. Very user friendly.

Point 3&4 has nothing to do with user friendliness.

Also, I can get 840km of extra urban driving on a single charge, and it takes me less than 10min for a full charge at one of the many charging stations.

[Tommy Cookers]

[quote=Andres125sx].....you should blame UK government because of using so much fossil fuels and ignoring emissions but who knows, maybe their plan is a huge change for 2040[/quote]

the country is run by 'news' media, who fake environmental crises and force the elected government to respond to 'public' opinion

the UK is not ignoring any emissions, it has done more reduction (relatively) than any other country, it's done too much
it also reprocesses many other countries nuclear fuel

and you're still telling yourself and us that there is no fossil fuel burned in Spain, Holland, or Sweden etc etc for heating
and so all energy in those countries is in the form of vehicle fuel or renewable electricity

the UK renewables programme is bigger than Spain's etc etc
coal will all be gone by 2025, it is already being replaced by the environmentally bogus wood firing
the UK carbon emission has already fallen to less than 3% of the (rising) carbon emission of China and India combined

[Zynerji]

1- A flat torque curve wich ICEs will never match
2- Mechanical simplicity wich means much extended inspection services and reliability wich simply can´t be compared
3- Much much much higher lifespan. Electric motors don´t suffer any wear, replace the battery (wich will be a lot more affordable in a near future), and motor bearings as much (wich is fairly easy and shouldn´t be necessary) and you get a brand new power unit performing exactly as new
4- Better weight distribution so better handling
5- It´s possible to install some renewable energies at home (solar panels, wind turbines for particulars...) and become self-sufficient. Then you can laugh at home while watching petrol prices going higher and higher


And take into account I´ve only talked about user advantages, didn´t even mention anything about emissions

The petrol prices go down the more EV come into being due to supply and demand.

EV, by its very existence guarantees the continued lifespan of IC vehicles.

Nice wishfull thinking, but something wich is limited and need to be used for loads of things (asphalt, plastics, gas, diesel for ships, kerosene for airliners.....) will never see a price drop. Even if a half of the worldwide cars become electric.

Are you seriously claiming that your opinion wins against an iron law of economics?

Any product that loses 50% of its customers will see a price correction.

Your opinion in this case has no merit.

[henry]

The drive I did at the weekend would be impossible in electric: Left Teesside, drove to Prudhoe, test drove a Cayman, headed south through the lake district down to Birmingham, swung towards London ending at Heathrow. Astra 1.6d hire car. 300+ miles. A Model S would be at the limit of its endurance.

I can see electric cars being the future. Can you imagine transplanting the system and drive train from a Tesla S into a Gallardo?

However the UK government always miss targets. 2050 possibly.

I can see why you did 300+ miles. Prudhoe to Heathrow is 300.

For 20+ years I round trip commuted to the office or to the airport, between 50 and 120 miles a day. Had something like the BMW i3 been available I would probably have jumped at it. Pre-warmed in the winter, pre-cooled in the summer, quick, quiet and low running costs. Where's the downside?