Heikki rebuilt at McLaren

[mx_tifoso]

Don't forget the Red ! at the top right of all the posts that annoy you folks

True, but then you might get a PM from a certain someone telling you to mind your own business.

And you'd figure that with the addition of new moderators the amount of junk that goes on in many of the current threads would decrease even just a bit. I understand that this site allows a large amount of freedom of speech, but when some members in particular can't stop trolling and mainly spreading negative words the line of "freedom of speech" gets crossed (IMO).

It mighe be due to that fact the no one with "autority" has spoken to him/her/them about their post content. Since I, just another member with no autority whatsoever ,certainly has, to only have no effect on the situation.

And I'm certain that I am not the only member who is tired of these trolling members with "hating" agendas. If the people with autority around here would be kind enough to do something about it (at least talking to the them politely) it would most certainly be of great appreciation.

These are sincere feelings about what is going on around here, I know that I probably shouldn't take it so personally, but the only reason for why I visit this site is to be informed about what goes on in Formula 1, and it's a reason shared with many others as well. So times like this certainly make coming here a bore.

.....Without disrespect, what is the point of having new moderators? And when will their new positions actually be noticed? Is part of their duty to keep the threads in "check"?.....

So I reiterate my wish once again to whoever might be able to do the "job"; please take the time and effort to keep this site clean and maintain a positive ambiance for all to enjoy .

...BTW, I mean this in the most positive of ways.

[/rant over]

West, actually there were WMD's in Iraq, but were made illegal only after the destruction of opposition in Australia '07.

[P_O_L]

Youd almost suspect it was me saying heiki got systematicaly pulled apart last year and it was only at mclarens warmth that gets him gelled backed together. rebuilt haha. Implying renault is the bad factor here.

Its almost amusing people dont realise or want to see no other team fabricates their pr just as mclaren. Ferrari, bmw, renault, williams, str, red bull, force india, honda, toyota, aguri, none of them are selling so much bullshit as the grey and black team.


Anyway, as far as im concerned they can go to hell and never win anything. Mosley shouldv banned them for at least 60 years.

[modbaraban]

DON'T YOU TELL ME WHAT TO DO

[tarzoon]

Great stuff here! With a bit more effort it is good enough to start a F1 conspiracy novel. =D>

Now that ECU is more restrict, the engineers at Woking are dedicating more effort to optimize drivers programme. Only the icing sugar is missing. I think I'll try to contact Mclaren to see if they can reprogramme me as well. Deep down inside I can be a better pilot than Fangio, Senna and Shummi altogether. Only a matter of finding the best setup. Be prepared!

[Ciro Pabón]

.....Without disrespect, what is the point of having new moderators? And when will their new positions actually be noticed? Is part of their duty to keep the threads in "check"?.....

I don't know, it may take some time. I never yell to the kids: sometimes they bore me beyond belief before I say something.

Actually, mx, I've been really thinking about your question for the last 24 hours, that is, my entire career as moderator. Given the fact that some discussions in this forum have certainly not being moderated but incensed by me, you could understand my reluctance to intervene. I can easily imagine the New York Times headlines: "Site moderator killed in row over Ron Dennis, after thread on Ron's taste for shirts got out of hand"...

It took me a long hour this morning just to explore the moderator panel. I think I understand half of the options, so do not get surprised if I delete all the posts of this forum by mistake...

Another extremely important issue is that I now start to realize that a moderator can tone down a discussion, but it is beyond his reach to make people posts to have some literary value or to be even interesting or, at least, readable.

Frankly, I can't do it with my own posts, imagine the situation you're in when you talk about other people's posts... What do you say to them? Be smart? You cannot ask people to change their points of view, only their style. And perhaps my own style is not the best in the world, if you understand me.

Now, mx_tifosi, I believe I haven't posted in three years more than a couple of times on bad drivers or teams. I like much more to understand how the good drivers and teams do it and I explore their virtues.

I join to the chorus. I also think that P_O_L himself hasn't got that point: if he only could talk about those things he thinks are good, his posts would be more enjoyable, at least for me.

For example, on thread, I would say that Kovalainen is one of the best five drivers in the world this season, easily. I've seen him beating Schumi on a Ferrari, for heaven's sake. I would also say that Dennis is one of the three best team managers this season, also easily: I've seen his cars racing, period. They're best in the world. I like both those guys, they probably can learn from each other, even if Dennis got out of his shirt for a minute over some comment from Briatore, the old fox.

Besides, if there is a person in the world that does not know how to manage drivers by heart is Ron Dennis, he has proved that once and again. I'd say he manages by discipline, an old style not in vogue.

This post is getting out of hand, sorry for its length, but I don't want to omit this:

The winter time is already over: no matter what some web sites say in some articles, looking for "the mote in your brother's eye", the true fights are on the track, not behind the paddock.

[Rob W]

..well... Briatore has been pissing on Ron's cornflakes too often...

I agree. When Briatore says something quite opinionated it seem to be taken at face value by the media ten times more often than when Dennis says something. Dennis is really in the gun non-stop nowdays and I sort of admire his restraint in many situations where he could just let fly.

Briatore has slated his own drivers on a number of occasions (first race last year for Heikki). It's strange that he plays the negative PR game so often but still manages to come out as the 'cool' guy on the grid. He has a lot to say, I think that's why journalists turn to him so much. Not because he speaks the gospel.

R

[bar555]

I hope for a similar recreation of N. Piquet JR

[Principessa]

I believe that Heikki can only be pleased with the influence Renault has had on his career. I agree that it was unfair of Flavio that he got angry at Heikki after the 2007 Australian GP and not do the same with Nelson Piquet Jr. when he stuffed up this season during the curtain-raiser. But Heikki has been an extraordinary driver since he entered F1. Of course with the slow R27, this wasn't picked-up by some of the F1 fans.

I believe that Heikki proves that every driver with some skills put in a fast, competitive and reliable car, can fight for the podium. Last season everybody was so surprised to see Hamilton at front, now they are so surprised to see Kovalainen at front...this hasn't only to do with the driver, but also with the fact that McLaren has build 2 amazing cars over the past 2 years (with or without the Ferrari information, I leave that up to you). I believe that the fact that Heikki does so well, proves that Hamilton isn't such a wonder after all. If you would have put Heikki in the MP4-22 last season and Hamilton in the R27, the result would be that Kovalainen would have been vice-champion and that Hamilton would have secured several points for Renault.

In my point of view, Heikki is an amazing driver, who got the chance to move to a top team with a top car. I'm sure more can be expected of him this season. Don't forget that he still has to familiarise with the car, the systems and the team. But I believe that during the following races, Hamilton will lose this advantage over Kovalainen and than the Briton will have to watch out for that fast Finn.

[Steven]

I believe that Heikki can only be pleased with the influence Renault has had on his career. I agree that it was unfair of Flavio that he got angry at Heikki after the 2007 Australian GP and not do the same with Nelson Piquet Jr. when he stuffed up this season during the curtain-raiser. But Heikki has been an extraordinary driver since he entered F1. Of course with the slow R27, this wasn't picked-up by some of the F1 fans. ...

Actually, Piquet didn't do much wrong in his first race. He got hit from behind in the first corner and after that struggled to find pace with a damaged Renault. Heikki's mistakes were much more apparent in his first race. However, apart from the first race, Heikki just did a fantastic job last season as he repeatedly gave Fisico a beating.

One must also take into account that Piquet is more interesting for Renault from a marketing point of view, and Briatore is not unaware of that

[NickT]

Heikki is a great driver on the up, but I would definitely say that he looks more relaxed and more complete this season. Part of this will be the experience he has under his belt, but part will also be his position within the team and the team's input into his preperation for this season.

Its pretty clear to me that at work different personalities and temperaments suit different types of companies and management styles. And this is the same with the teams. Alonso, like Mansell before him, was never going to really fit in at McLaren, he is a super star that needs to feel he is being treated like one. Heikki is a Finn without such pretensions and has a good work ethic, which I am sure is eminently more suited to the McLaren team environment.

I am fairly unique in that despite being a Brit I am not a huge fan of Lewis Hamilton, which is why I was extremely impressed by Heikki's performances this season. I also believe that the help and support he is receiving from the team, like Hamilton has received, has made him a stronger and more complete driver, which I think is probably the source of Ron's comments. That does not detract from his latent talent or abilities that got him there in the first place.

[DaveKillens]

On the humorous and silly side of life, whenever I watch the intro of Robot Chicken, I think of Heikki.... lol
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SRjXiSXeCXo

[NickT]

HELP - can't seem to play more than a few seconds of video with Flashplayer 9 in Firefox, it all seams to load ok and I can click on any part of the time line, but all I get is a couple of seconds of play! Any ideas?

[P_O_L]

[quote="Ciro Pabón
For example, on thread, I would say that Kovalainen is one of the best five drivers in the world this season, easily. I've seen him beating Schumi on a Ferrari, for heaven's sake. I would also say that Dennis is one of the three best team managers this season, also easily: I've seen his cars racing, period. They're best in the world. I like both those guys, they probably can learn from each other, even if Dennis got out of his shirt for a minute over some comment from Briatore, the old fox.

Besides, if there is a person in the world that does not know how to manage drivers by heart is Ron Dennis, he has proved that once and again. I'd say he manages by discipline, an old style not in vogue.

This post is getting out of hand, sorry for its length, but I don't want to omit this:

The winter time is already over: no matter what some web sites say in some articles, looking for "the mote in your brother's eye", the true fights are on the track, not behind the paddock.[/quote]

Hmm, when did kovalainen and shumi race against eachother in F1 again? And why would it be unfair to criticise his own driver heikki last year and not piquet this year? Heiki himself said he wasnt up to standards those races and i doubt they are excatly the same in casu. Aside from that lets not blow briatores words over the moon, he merely said heikki wasnt so good, thats all. He gota lot of praise later on.

I dont mind if the whole forum joins the chorus, it remains double standards to accuse me of being negative while my response was on the negative pr bull from mclaren! Apparently its okay for mclaren to attack and ridicule the sport and the fans with arrogant statements like: we built heikki! But when I say it and condemn them I bring a negative vibe to this forum? That isnt really fair, is it? I could post all day about what mclaren have done for idiotic things in F1s past but i merely react on their statement about Heikki, period. Everybody here can play the mandoline all day singing about the holy Ron Dennis but at least allow people to disagree or rename the forum into: the vodafone mclaren mercedes f1 technical forum.

Anyway, ive decided im gonna write a formal protest to the FIA about the conduct of Mclaren and my dissaproval of giving them the 5th pitbox. They havent learned one jot about last year. Im more or less a fan of all the other teams just because they do have a code of cinduct whereas mclaren doesnt seem to have any.

Besides, if there is a person in the world that does not know how to manage drivers by heart is Ron Dennis, he has proved that once and again.

A last word about this, its allright if you THINK that if theres one person who knows how to manage its Dennis, the fact remains more or less half the world agrees that Dennis could NOT manage his drivers last year. And the facts point to even worse; Senna and Prost both walked out. JPM walked out, Kimi walked out, Mika walked out, mansell walked out. Alonso couldnt leave fast enough. Newey and a whole string of high rated engineers walked out. Adrian Newey had nothing but bitter things to say about mclaren and dennis. In fact, almost all of them had negative things to say about Dennis and his managing. The president of the FIA (and me) have accused dennis of lying. I dont think all that adds up to being even vagely a good manager. And if his cars would be the best, how come they have won only one (1) constructors trophy in the last 18 years and none (zilch) the last 9 years? If it wasnt for Mansour Ojeh and Mercedes Benz, mclaren probably wouldnt even exist today.

[NickT]

Fixed the Flashplayer.

POL I see you are off again Would you at least agree that McLaren are one of the most successful teams in the pit lane? If so then you have to agree that Denis must doing one or two things correctly, yes? Also did you read my post on personality types and management styles?

[Ciro Pabón]

Hmm, when did kovalainen and shumi race against eachother in F1 again? And why would it be unfair to criticise his own driver heikki last year and not piquet this year?...

P_O_L, where did I mention F1? Dear, Heikki won the Race of Champions in 2004, over Sebastian Loeb. He was the first non-rally driver to win the Henri Tovoinen trophy, earning the title "Champion of Champions", in case you haven't noticed. At the Cup's Nation, he won over Loeb, even when he had never seated in a WRC car ever. I don't know about you, but to me, a hardcore fan of WRC, this speaks volumes.

As for my comment, at that event Heikki Kovalainen also beat old Schumi running on a Ferrari 360 Modena. Schumi wasn't happy: in my opinion he feigned a failure of the car in the last curve, so the loss wouldn't look so terrible (you should have seen the forced smile in Schumacher's face in the end: he was there in the role of "Ferrari wizard", of course: who deserves that better than him?). I thought an expert like you would know...

So, I imagine you have not seen Kovalainen at his best, you should. The driving of this guy is a treat for my old eyes, specially on a day when he beats Loeb at a WRC car and Schumi at a Ferrari. So, any disrespect about his driving abilities will only gain a sniff from me.

Simple: Ron Dennis can dispose of drivers the way I change shirts, but what a taste he has for hiring them!

I dont mind if the whole bloody forum joins the chorus...

We've noticed.

... it remains double standards to accuse me of being negative while my response was on the negative pr bull from mclaren! Apparently its okay for mclaren to attack and ridicule the sport and the fans with arrogant statements like: we built heikki! But when I say it and condemn them I bring a negative vibe to this forum? That isnt really fair, is it?

Look, McLaren makes good cars, don't they? This means people don't appreciate them for their opinions but for their deeds, they can have the luxury of being stupid once in a while.

On the other hand, we don't: we HAVE to write good posts (or die trying! ). If people tells you bring a negative vibe, accept it: they're the only ones that can judge that, not you. We write for the forum, not for an eventual reading of the forum by Ron Dennis, my friend.

You know, friends are the only ones that tell you to wipe your nose, other people won't tell you and they will let you walking around with your nose dirty. When a dozen friends tell me to wipe my nose, I check in a mirror, they might be right.

People has reported your posts several times in 48 hours, man. Believe me, I'm astonished. They do not say your posts are negative, they say they already got your message. In short, your messages are not negative, they're boring! I'm sure that in time you'll get your point across in a better way, c'mon. There has not been a single person in this forum to awaken such response: use it!

However, believe me, if they do not agree with you is NOT because they don't understand you. Perhaps you could open a thread named "Let me count the ways why I hate Ron Dennis" and limit these kind of posts to that one: at least we could have a good laugh on old Dennis's mistakes, as we've done countless times. I repeat for the last time: it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Humour is always useful, if you're into "derogatory mood", like myself now...