2017 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 28-30 July

[Manoah2u]

Bottas blowing up his engine while defending hard against Vettel in Spain (who he wasnt even racing) while he was on course for 3rd place was seen as "great team effort". He pretty much fought for Hamilton to get his win, while he risked (and in the end lost) his old engine he was running in that race.

Bottas not holding Vettel there and finishing 3rd, while Hamilton retained 2nd place, would mean now Bottas would be ahead of Hamilton in WDC. But please, continue with inane arguing over Ferrari not ordering Vettel to move for a driver who is 100pts behind in WDC standings (and losing 1-2 in process). Seriously irrational thinking.

Conveniently forgetting Hamilton's gearbox issue in Austria which likely robbed him of a podium, if not the win (+13 points) and the win in Baku with his headrest issue in Baku (+15 points).

What? He qualified 4th and finished 4th. How did it rob him a win? My point is, Bottas literally sacrificed himself for Hamiltons win while Kimi stayed where he was (in part of season where he is already well out WDC competition).

are you ignorant? where did you think he ended up without a gearbox penalty? Lewis Qualified 3rd, and started 8th.
is it really so hard to imagine where he might have ended up without that 5 place grid drop? at the very least he would have started 3rd, perhaps even managed to get 2nd. that's between 3 and 6 more points he would have had on the WDC standings right now. If he actually managed to get p2, i wouldn't have been surprised if Bottas got 'shafted' and Mercedes would have used strategies to get Lewis in front of Bottas, resulting in 13 more points Lewis would have had right now, also cutting 3 points away from Vettel along the way.

I really think you have no idea what you're saying here, it is at the very least far away from the actual truth.

[Manoah2u]

Bottas blowing up his engine while defending hard against Vettel in Spain (who he wasnt even racing) while he was on course for 3rd place was seen as "great team effort". He pretty much fought for Hamilton to get his win, while he risked (and in the end lost) his old engine he was running in that race.

Bottas not holding Vettel there and finishing 3rd, while Hamilton retained 2nd place, would mean now Bottas would be ahead of Hamilton in WDC. But please, continue with inane arguing over Ferrari not ordering Vettel to move for a driver who is 100pts behind in WDC standings (and losing 1-2 in process). Seriously irrational thinking.

Conveniently forgetting Hamilton's gearbox issue in Austria which likely robbed him of a podium, if not the win (+13 points) and the win in Baku with his headrest issue in Baku (+15 points).

Oh my god...after Rosberg left and Hamilton got his sidekick instead of a contender I was hoping that we do not need to count through the points every race thread...

every race brings points, so it's rather logical to count points after every race, that means every race thread.

[Manoah2u]

Bottas blowing up his engine while defending hard against Vettel in Spain (who he wasnt even racing) while he was on course for 3rd place was seen as "great team effort". He pretty much fought for Hamilton to get his win, while he risked (and in the end lost) his old engine he was running in that race.

Bottas not holding Vettel there and finishing 3rd, while Hamilton retained 2nd place, would mean now Bottas would be ahead of Hamilton in WDC. But please, continue with inane arguing over Ferrari not ordering Vettel to move for a driver who is 100pts behind in WDC standings (and losing 1-2 in process). Seriously irrational thinking.

Lewis Hamilton : 188 PTS
Valterri Bottas : 169 PTS

points difference; 19 PTS

do tell me how on earth Valterri would have gained 20 !!!!!! over lewis whilst both finishing in the points.
Seriously irrational thinking. indeed.

Bottas engine blew up as the team was taking a risk. it had nothing to do with supposedly helping out lewis. what irrational thought pattern to think like that. The team risks far more by that by losing valuable constructor points.
the team took a risk with that engine, as they aknowledged, tinfoil hat stories don't make any sense here.

you're essentially saying - and somehow believing it yourself - that mercedes made a concious decision, knowing this engine could blow at any time when pushed too hard, to 'help' lewis get 5 more points, and lose 15 points by losing bottas' engine? just to help lewis? if you believe that, then wow, just wow.
if any, the team would have told Bottas to take it down a notch and go in 'safe mode' and perhaps finish 4th or 5th instead.

and you call others having irrational thinking.

[Chene_Mostert]

What! Only 19 points between LH & VB!
Botas doing a lot better than what I expected at the start of the season.
Lewis will have to start to pull finger, VB could very well finish the season ahead of him.

[basti313]

Conveniently forgetting Hamilton's gearbox issue in Austria which likely robbed him of a podium, if not the win (+13 points) and the win in Baku with his headrest issue in Baku (+15 points).

Oh my god...after Rosberg left and Hamilton got his sidekick instead of a contender I was hoping that we do not need to count through the points every race thread...

every race brings points, so it's rather logical to count points after every race, that means every race thread.

Seems like you are not in a good mood to get any sarcasm or any hyperboles...didn't this exciting race serve you well?
Of course counting the very interesting hypothetical not earned lost or whatever points.

[Manoah2u]

ah lol, my bad.

[basti313]

What! Only 19 points between LH & VB!
Botas doing a lot better than what I expected at the start of the season.
Lewis will have to start to pull finger, VB could very well finish the season ahead of him.

I do not see Bottas or Raikkonen doing anything special. After all this Ros vs. Ham nonsense with regular mediocre performances, I was hoping for a good fight between Vet and Ham with both keeping their head together and driving to the limit. They are, without doubt, capable of a season without stupid errors and we see sometimes these perfect performances. But instead of delivering constantly they are bottling their Q or start every second race or stupidly crashing into the other one.
What a shame. Before the Hybrid engines they would be somewhere like P4 or P5 even with the best car and not easily winning the championship.

[Manoah2u]

What! Only 19 points between LH & VB!
Botas doing a lot better than what I expected at the start of the season.
Lewis will have to start to pull finger, VB could very well finish the season ahead of him.

Yes, only 19 points difference.
and between Lewis and Seb it's just 14.

essentially that means Valterri is 'only' 33 points behind Vettel, so he's very much still in the run for the WDC.
IIRC, Hamilton's gap to Rosberg last year was bigger but he corrected that defecit to a lead in no-time, so there's still plenty to go with.

Seb is unavoidably going to get a grid penalty for engine/gearbox change and then there's no way they will beat Mercedes in that race, so there's easily 13 points to win over Vettel for Lewis in just 1 race (should he bring in a Win and Vettel get p4 tops) and we're back as we were before Hungary.

[Sieper]

Almost every other post on this page has a "value" judgment on how stupid the receiver is "are you ignorant" "seriously irrational thinking" (in bold and repeated) "oh my god" etc.

Why is that needed, even if the line of thought is correct (but there are always two sides to a story) if that "judging" is just left out the discussion will still be the exact same.

Rant over but please guys, show each other some respect, this is one of the best informed forums on F1.

[Mandrake]

What! Only 19 points between LH & VB!
Botas doing a lot better than what I expected at the start of the season.
Lewis will have to start to pull finger, VB could very well finish the season ahead of him.

Yes, only 19 points difference.
and between Lewis and Seb it's just 14.

essentially that means Valterri is 'only' 33 points behind Vettel, so he's very much still in the run for the WDC.
IIRC, Hamilton's gap to Rosberg last year was bigger but he corrected that defecit to a lead in no-time, so there's still plenty to go with.

Seb is unavoidably going to get a grid penalty for engine/gearbox change and then there's no way they will beat Mercedes in that race, so there's easily 13 points to win over Vettel for Lewis in just 1 race (should he bring in a Win and Vettel get p4 tops) and we're back as we were before Hungary.

They could do it on a track where Ferrari is not going to win anyways. Their performance delta is good enough to come third or fourth anyways, so the net result in that race would be 0 despite the change.

[Chene_Mostert]

What! Only 19 points between LH & VB!
Botas doing a lot better than what I expected at the start of the season.
Lewis will have to start to pull finger, VB could very well finish the season ahead of him.

Yes, only 19 points difference.
and between Lewis and Seb it's just 14.

essentially that means Valterri is 'only' 33 points behind Vettel, so he's very much still in the run for the WDC.
IIRC, Hamilton's gap to Rosberg last year was bigger but he corrected that defecit to a lead in no-time, so there's still plenty to go with.

Seb is unavoidably going to get a grid penalty for engine/gearbox change and then there's no way they will beat Mercedes in that race, so there's easily 13 points to win over Vettel for Lewis in just 1 race (should he bring in a Win and Vettel get p4 tops) and we're back as we were before Hungary.

The engine change penalty sounds a bit more like hope than fact... So let's wait and see, any of the drivers can effected by reliability so doing calculations now based on future events might lead to big disappointment.

[aral]

This thread is supposed to be about the Hungarian GP. Unfortunately it has degenerated into an argument about points and hypothetical penalties and situations. Could you please stay on track.

[AnthonyG]

http://www.f1technical.net/news/21339
"They were treated to a tense race that was closely contested right down to the wire. It proves that this sport can really offer great excitement and put on a fantastic show from the first to the last lap."

Well, if you have to say it, it's probably not true. I think it was a more boring Hungarian GP. Probably a great track to go see F1, but not a great race.

[Manoah2u]

They could do it on a track where Ferrari is not going to win anyways. Their performance delta is good enough to come third or fourth anyways, so the net result in that race would be 0 despite the change.

Well, that does rather depend too on what RedBull might do. It's not a clear team vs team battle, it's 3 teams in the mix, and it seems RedBull is in a better shape then they were at the start / first quarter of the season.
That means they could spoil things a bit - for both parties offcourse.

Essentially, they could become the wedge between either team. They're not 'good enough' on their own [due to engine power it seems] to go for wins, but they're more and more capable of reaching P3 and P4, that means if Mercedes still has that qually mode [which seemed to be lacking in Hungary], then RedBull could spoil things and 'upset' the WDC fight.

anyway, noted Aral's comment, i won't further delve into hypothetical situations anymore in this thread alteast

[GPR-A duplicate2]

They could do it on a track where Ferrari is not going to win anyways. Their performance delta is good enough to come third or fourth anyways, so the net result in that race would be 0 despite the change.

Well, that does rather depend too on what RedBull might do. It's not a clear team vs team battle, it's 3 teams in the mix, and it seems RedBull is in a better shape then they were at the start / first quarter of the season.
That means they could spoil things a bit - for both parties offcourse.

Essentially, they could become the wedge between either team. They're not 'good enough' on their own [due to engine power it seems] to go for wins, but they're more and more capable of reaching P3 and P4, that means if Mercedes still has that qually mode [which seemed to be lacking in Hungary], then RedBull could spoil things and 'upset' the WDC fight.

We already saw how Red Bull can spoil the party to both Merc and Ferrari. If not for an engine failure, Max would have definitely be on the podium in Canada. Though Bottas managed to catch Ric in Baku, that Red Bull was long ahead to be even challenged. Ric again spoiled the party in Austria and held Hamilton back convincingly and demonstrated very good pace, on a power track. Max managed to screw Vettel's race in silverstone. So, RB has shown that they are not easy meat, even on power tracks. And yeah, no one can overtake Max.