Heikki rebuilt at McLaren

[DaveKillens]

I'd like to add something positive. P O L, lately I have come to respect and appreciate how passionate and sincere you are about F1. We may not agree, but I can see in you a person passionately committed (in your unique manner)to the wonderful spectacle of F1.

[Belatti]

Ladies and gentemen, the new Forum mod, in all it´s grace =D>

When I first enter here, my posts where kind of aggressive. Then, many friends (I wont mention them all) told me to wipe my nose. Eventually a snot cames out but fortunately don´t last there much thanks to them. I think they helped me improve my posts tremendously eventhough they are still far from perfect.

Look, there was a famous politician from my country (that I dont like) who said that you have to ride history, not confront it. Well said for him, because if you ride it, you can turn it.

Returning to our topic: I saw that ROC back in 2004 and was one of the best. Loeb and Schumacher in Ferrari and Peugeot, who would win? -I thought. In those times Heikki was in Renault Drivers Development Program, along Pechito Lopez (the last Argentinian F1 wannabe) and after the ROC I thought: "OMG, we have no hope for Renault to choose him rather than this new flying Finn"

When I made the Poll Heikki vs Lewis it wasn´t just for fun. I knew that the Finn was faster than his scoring in 2007 and Lewis proved to be fast, so it is one of the internal battles I´ll follow this year.

[P_O_L]

[quote="Ciro PabónHowever, believe me, if they do not agree with you is NOT because they don't understand you. Perhaps you could open a thread named "Let me count the ways why I hate Ron Dennis" and limit these kind of posts to that one: at least we could have a good laugh on old Dennis's mistakes, as we've done countless times. I repeat for the last time: it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Humour is always useful, if you're into "derogatory mood", like myself now... [/quote]


Im a law student and we get taught to have heavy discussions and filter out the personal bile. And in the end, if convinced or not, respect eachother and still have a beer. I dont think ive made one nasty remark on anyone who accused me of being a troll or other derogatory comments. That i find a tad sad.

Allright, il think about repackaging the message and play the mandolin while ill sum up dennis and mclarens shortfalls. I still think people who complain are not entirely honest. I posted 2 lines on the heiki thread, wich i didnt start and more people thought it was bullshit.

And for the record, i never saw that ROC race but i can sure imagine shumis glum face if he got beaten. But evenso i still think of shumi as one of teh greatest ever. especially his pre-2000 years he put a car in places it didnt belong.

As for heiki lets make no mistake: i rate that guy imensly high. I was a huge fan of fisi for years but perplex he got beaten so big and so much. Mclaren wanted rosberg they say but i personally think there isnt much between the fin and the german, if any at all.

[Boudica]

So Ronster is taking credit for his new improved FIN-BOT.

"Give him three more races and he will be giving Lewis a real hard time.

"Lewis knows it and they are happy and joking about it. I hope as and when it becomes competitive between the drivers that the harmony keeps on," he added.

I cant understand why he constantly feels the need to tell everyone how well his drivers are getting along. What exactly is he trying to achieve with that? If anything he might slowly but surely be causing new driver management issues, again.

Or maybe he is just taking credit in advance for in case Heikki start to beat Lewis.

[Rob W]

Im a law student and we get taught to have heavy discussions and filter out the personal bile.

I think I won the pool.=D> The closest guess to what you did.

Law schools really do have this knack for creating a culture where they consider themselves to be the chosen few on some sort of moral high-ground. No one else's opinion could possibly be right. Unfortunately this aura often spills over into other areas of their life, relationships etc. (Telltale sign is : the more people disagree the more you argue it to the nth)

Don't worry though, this isn't intended to be an insult on your way of life. Plenty of people here have been through law school. After a few years in a law company most people tend to realise what a crock that aspect of their training was. The few who don't end up being senior litigators or spend their life defending criminals... or worse... they end up running a motorsport series.

R

[Ciro Pabón]

Allright, il think about repackaging the message and play the mandolin while ill sum up dennis and mclarens shortfalls.

Thanks, P_O_L, you're very kind. I'll play along with you, sincerely. I did not say this before (I think): welcome to the forum.

I actually appreciate lawyers: my entire family (except me) is made of lawyers, even my mom. Every lunch at my parent's house is an exercise in rethoric and dialectic. I'm also taught to value the straight verbal logic of lawyers, as precise and concise as an engineering text, and, at least in the case of latin lawyers, as exotic and surprising as poetry. So, Rob, if you mess with lawyers, I'm gonna tell my mom...

For Boudica, welcome. I agree with you: Dennis is clearly implying Briatore and Renault do not know how to "program" a driver and he wants to reap the laurels Kovalainen will bring to McLaren. The fact that he talks about drivers the same way I talk about machines is enlightening. Anyway, I'm still wondering who will win this year. Bahrain will clarify things a little, even if I expect Ferrari to handle better the Bridgestone tyres in the desert heat. BTW, this year tyres seem to have been a pain in the butt to "dial in".

Thanks, Belatti. For the record, I don't think you're aggresive, but I live in Colombia... perhaps that explain it.

About Kovalainen beating Schumi, you can take a look here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=O9DHCEISlWg&feature=related

[P_O_L]

[quote="Rob WLaw schools really do have this knack for creating a culture where they consider themselves to be the chosen few on some sort of moral high-ground. No one else's opinion could possibly be right. Unfortunately this aura often spills over into other areas of their life, relationships etc. (Telltale sign is : the more people disagree the more you argue it to the nth)R[/quote]

Im lucky to have seen other aspects of life aside from my study anyway. But the 'chosen one' idea goes beyond me. I dont think many here think theyre better than anyone at all. A debate in general isnt part of a lawyers life anyway. It is just to learn how to see what arguments others can bring and how convincing that could be for a judge. It keeps you from ranting away without substantiated argumentation wich can only be a benefit in al aspects of your life. The question is therefore not exactly who is right or wrong, that is always a bit subjective, but how to come to some form of concensus. Wich is a huge part of being in a relationship, for instance, as im sure many would agree, painfull as it may be

[ben_watkins]

A debate in general isnt part of a lawyers life anyway. It is just to learn how to see what arguments others can bring and how convincing that could be for a judge.

I'd have to disagree - Debating is essential to a lawyer. Being able to listen to the other sides arguments and rebuff them with more compelling arguments, including facts should be the bread and butter of a laywers life.

It keeps you from ranting away without substantiated argumentation wich can only be a benefit in al aspects of your life.

That is possibly the best thing I've ever read of yours. Perhaps you should practice what you preach more often!


Back on topic.. We've all pretty much agreed, that the RD quote about Heikki was playground bitching.. But to be fair to Heikki, he does seem happier at McLaren.

Perhaps this is due to the team having had Mika in the team for so long, or the fact the team doctor is from Finland as well? Or perhaps it's because he's in a pretty fast car and he gets on well with his team mate on a personal level? Maybe it's down to the fact he's scoring points and made a good pass on Alonso in his first race for the team. Ok he messed up the pass by hitting the pit limiter..
But he bounced back and he was on the podium in his second race for the team and looked like he had a better setup on the car over the race weekend.

I think he'll have a good ding dong battle all season with the other teams as well as his team mate..

[Boudica]

A debate in general isnt part of a lawyers life anyway. It is just to learn how to see what arguments others can bring and how convincing that could be for a judge.

I'd have to disagree - Debating is essential to a lawyer. Being able to listen to the other sides arguments and rebuff them with more compelling arguments, including facts should be the bread and butter of a laywers life.

It keeps you from ranting away without substantiated argumentation wich can only be a benefit in al aspects of your life.

That is possibly the best thing I've ever read of yours. Perhaps you should practice what you preach more often!


Back on topic.. We've all pretty much agreed, that the RD quote about Heikki was playground bitching.. But to be fair to Heikki, he does seem happier at McLaren.

Perhaps this is due to the team having had Mika in the team for so long, or the fact the team doctor is from Finland as well? Or perhaps it's because he's in a pretty fast car and he gets on well with his team mate on a personal level? Maybe it's down to the fact he's scoring points and made a good pass on Alonso in his first race for the team. Ok he messed up the pass by hitting the pit limiter..
But he bounced back and he was on the podium in his second race for the team and looked like he had a better setup on the car over the race weekend.

I think he'll have a good ding dong battle all season with the other teams as well as his team mate..

Heikki definitely seems to be a Maclaren type of guy.

Interestingly enough if it wasn't for his bad pit strategy in Australia he would have been leading the championship now.

[P_O_L]

I'd have to disagree - Debating is essential to a lawyer. Being able to listen to the other sides arguments and rebuff them with more compelling arguments, including facts should be the bread and butter of a laywers life.

Lets see..you have criminal law where you defend your party against accusation and are not allowed to debate straight with the prosecutor...then you have all the fields in civil law where you also rarely go into a debate with your counterpart. You merely listen to the other partys defence and indeed, try to come up with arguments why justice should be found otherwise. Both cases are thus not the strict sense of a debate like politicians have or we at this forum. EDIT: i did some research and it seems the debate factor is much higher in your system than mine. Here the judge is the active part and guides the process. Common law the judge is much more passive. Nevertheless the goal is the same, to convince the judge, not your counterpart. EDIT

It could be that its different in teh UK with your common law wich im not familiar with but id be suprised if it was much different than our civil law system.

That is possibly the best thing I've ever read of yours. Perhaps you should practice what you preach more often!

lol Why, you saw some unsubstantiated comments from me here? quote away!!

pling pling, im playing my mandolin..

I dont understand why dennis says itl take 3 races before heiki makes a hard time on lewis? Last weekend he outraced and outqualified lewis already?

Ok ill put the mandolin away again.

[Giblet]

So Hammie gets promised an F1 LM if he winsw the title.

If Hek wins does he get a sandwich? A pat on the bum from Ron?

I don't think a prize like that should be a consideration to the driver or team. It tells me that the Lewis needs more motivation than 'just the world championship', or that Ron thinks the meeeeeeellions of dollars aren't enough.

The prize should be a metaphorical carrot for either driver, or nothing at all.

look P_O_L, I like McLaren, and just slammed them!

BTW - Mandolins are little folky strummy guitars, and sound like something that would be played as background music for toy cars, or Tiny Tim's music. Do you maybe mean violins?

[Spencifer_Murphy]

I wouldn't read too much into that Giblet,

Lewis has been promised the F1 LM IF he wins BOTH the 2008 & 2009 titles. And according to the article in F1 racing magazine I get the impression that this isn't a formal arrangement or deal.

It seems to be simply a case that when Lewis came to the Mclaren headquarters as a boy his favourite car was the F1 LM.

It seems that Dennis has just said (seeing as he's almost like a father figure to Lewis) "Win the titles in '08 & '09, and the keys are yours".

I can't see lewis as needing more incentive than that to win, one minute we're told that they are highly competitive guys, the next "They need incentive" - it cannot be both. That drive he made in the Turkish race of GP2 in 2005 was astonishing, and proof enough he needs no further incentive.

[Rob W]

Why, you saw some unsubstantiated comments from me here? quote away!!

pling pling, im playing my mandolin..

How's this for a start?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5346&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=10

Its almost amusing people dont realise or want to see no other team fabricates their pr just as mclaren. Ferrari, ...none of them are selling so much bullshit as the grey and black team.

Patently unprovable. I'd argue Ferrari have spouted as much PR crap in the five years as any other team.
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5346&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=20

the vodafone mclaren mercedes f1 technical forum.

Really? Much of last year the debates were usually pretty evenly split with Ferrari advocates and McLaren appologists.

Mika walked out

Retired I think is the correct description. Calling it 'walking out' implies relationship problems etc which there were not (well, according to both parties).
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5333&start=10

...during that Spa 98 race, where DC robbed shumi of a certain 3rd world championship

I'm pretty sure the jury is out on that one. Mika's car/driving cost Schumy the world championship.

From the wikipedia page: the stewards found no case against Coulthard..
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5315&start=70

Well done to BMW now that they have a better car than Mclaren.

McLaren lead both the driver's and constructor's championships.


R

[ben_watkins]

Rob W

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

[NickT]

Rob W

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

I will second that, thanks Rob W