Heikki rebuilt at McLaren

[P_O_L]

Why, you saw some unsubstantiated comments from me here? quote away!!

pling pling, im playing my mandolin..

How's this for a start?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5346&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=10

Its almost amusing people dont realise or want to see no other team fabricates their pr just as mclaren. Ferrari, ...none of them are selling so much bullshit as the grey and black team.

Patently unprovable. I'd argue Ferrari have spouted as much PR crap in the five years as any other team.
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5346&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=20

the vodafone mclaren mercedes f1 technical forum.

Really? Much of last year the debates were usually pretty evenly split with Ferrari advocates and McLaren appologists.

Mika walked out

Retired I think is the correct description. Calling it 'walking out' implies relationship problems etc which there were not (well, according to both parties).
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5333&start=10

...during that Spa 98 race, where DC robbed shumi of a certain 3rd world championship

I'm pretty sure the jury is out on that one. Mika's car/driving cost Schumy the world championship.

From the wikipedia page: the stewards found no case against Coulthard..
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5315&start=70

Well done to BMW now that they have a better car than Mclaren.

McLaren lead both the driver's and constructor's championships.


R

Patently unprovable? In a thread that is about dennis saying he built heikki and not renault? Youre kidding, off course Also, its one thing saying ferrari spouted much crap, it remains unsubstantiated if you cant even come up with one example.

walking out doesnt necesarily have to mean there where problems. The fact remains he quit, stopped, walked out. Another rather weak example to say i have unsubstantiated arguments.

...during that Spa 98 race, where DC robbed shumi of a certain 3rd world championship

I'm pretty sure the jury is out on that one. Mika's car/driving cost Schumy the world championship.

The jury isnt out on that one since DC admitted it was HIS fault shumi crashed into him, therefore we can bury all accusations and say shumi was responsible. He lost the title in the end by less than 10 points, so its not so crazy or unsubstantiated to claim shumi proly was robbed of a at that time 3rd and in total 8th championship at that race.

And leading both championships doesnt necesarily mean mclaren have a better car. Kubica was killed by nakajima in melbouren, prolly would have gotten pole there and outraced and outqualified the mclarens in malaysia. Add to that heidfelds fastest racelap and kubicas own claim he thinks bmw is currently faster than mclaren im yet again, not guilty of saying things wich are unsubstantiated.

And you can clap your hands all day long, Ben Watkins, if i where you id come up with some examples of unsubstantiated arguments as it was you who accused me of practising them in the first place. It looks just as silly as rob ws claim ferrari spouts out crap without backing it up with even the slightest example.

[NickT]

POL,

You have not replied to my last questions and I am very curious what your answers will be, so I will repeat them:

POL I see you are off again Would you at least agree that McLaren are one of the most successful teams in the pit lane? If so then you have to agree that Denis must doing one or two things correctly, yes? Also did you read my post on personality types and management styles?

To save you searching for the original post, see below

Heikki is a great driver on the up, but I would definitely say that he looks more relaxed and more complete this season. Part of this will be the experience he has under his belt, but part will also be his position within the team and the team's input into his preperation for this season.

Its pretty clear to me that at work different personalities and temperaments suit different types of companies and management styles. And this is the same with the teams. Alonso, like Mansell before him, was never going to really fit in at McLaren, he is a super star that needs to feel he is being treated like one. Heikki is a Finn without such pretensions and has a good work ethic, which I am sure is eminently more suited to the McLaren team environment.

I am fairly unique in that despite being a Brit I am not a huge fan of Lewis Hamilton, which is why I was extremely impressed by Heikki's performances this season. I also believe that the help and support he is receiving from the team, like Hamilton has received, has made him a stronger and more complete driver, which I think is probably the source of Ron's comments. That does not detract from his latent talent or abilities that got him there in the first place.

[P_O_L]

Mclaren where once, a long long time ago, one of the most succesfull teams. A bit like the england squad; they won the 66 cup but this coming summer they arent even participating in the european cup. Lotus, Tyrrell, Jordan, Maserati, they all once where one of the most succesfull teams around. To me, it doesnt impress me that much.

As for managing and alonso; for a superstar with matching ego i believe the facts tell a different story. He drove a year for minardi where he trashed his teammate, and then went back to even more obscurity in being a test driver. All the wooha that he demanded number one status at mclaren is still specualtion from the british press. Most other countries believe there is a lot more to it. Also, it was lewis who had been publicly slamming alonso while the spaniard remained and still remains more or less very closed on the subjects.

All your musings on Heiki i do agree though. Its a likeable dude.

[modbaraban]

All the wooha that he demanded number one status at mclaren is still specualtion from the british press. Most other countries believe there is a lot more to it. Also, it was lewis who had been publicly slamming alonso while the spaniard remained and still remains more or less very closed on the subjects.

Sorry but this is an utter and complete pling pling. Most other countries is Spain

[NickT]

As for managing and alonso; for a superstar with matching ego i believe the facts tell a different story. He drove a year for minardi where he trashed his teammate, and then went back to even more obscurity in being a test driver. All the wooha that he demanded number one status at mclaren is still specualtion from the british press. Most other countries believe there is a lot more to it. Also, it was lewis who had been publicly slamming alonso while the spaniard remained and still remains more or less very closed on the subjects.

Lets get a few things straight;

Firstly, I am not criticising Alonso or his superstar personality, I am simply highlighting the persona of a very driven Latin male who has won 2 World Championships in two almost straight fights with one Mr Michael Schumacher and who, rightly in my opinion, expected number one status over a talented but inexperienced rookie team mate - POL where have you been for the last 3 years? Alonso is a superstar and rightly has the expectations to go with it.

Secondly, can you please provide some substantiated evidence of Master Hamilton's public slamming of Alonso, I have seen a lot of British and Spanish tabloid press speculation and hype about their relationship but have seen little or no hard evidence. Both drivers have kept a lid on what happened last year and have been publicly respectful to each other.

[P_O_L]

pling pling

I think lewis explicitly stated twice that he would liked to see alonso leave mclaren. do a search on the bbc website and im sure you can find it. Furthermore he humiliated alonso and his own team by saying in the post race press conference monaco 2007 that he knows he is a number 2 driver, he signed up to be number 2.

At spa later that year he said Alonso was a bad team player not attending the paris council meeting. Considering all this it was, again, plain hypocrite of Lewis saying at the press conference at melbourne, taht he thought it was 'a shame alonso was not his teammate anymore'.

And i dont think you where criticising alonso in any way. I just felt the alleged star ego he has, isnt realy convincingly coming out. Here in Holland, in german media, in French media (hello modbaraban , there is much speculation alonso never asked for preferential treatment. That the feud came down because lewis got way more attention from dennis, engineers and other team members than Alonso. That Lewis constantly used his set-ups without even so much as saying thank you. And the culmination in that hungary incident where Lewis refused to let alonso go ahead, eventhough that was the agreement with the team. Hell, even the BBC, the most lewis loving entity in britain, has sayed that eversince dennis motormouthed into:"we were racing alonso, not kimi" kind of gave away the emphasis was on lewis, not alonso and certainly not equal. That same bbc reported it was strange that allthough all season there was little between both drivers in terms of speed, alonso was suddenly half a second slower. Implying mclaren stopped supporting alonso. Another point wich should give an indication it was WAY more than simply thinking alonso demanded number one status, was the FIA installing a monitor at the mclaren garage to make sure he really does get the same material.

Considering all these events, i think its too easy to think alonso demanding number one status, was the reason behind all the fighting.

Oh and why not violins? I think a mandolin sounds better for telling sweet stories

pling pling

[Militia Est Vita]

I agree

[sebbe]

Another point wich should give an indication it was WAY more than simply thinking alonso demanded number one status, was the FIA installing a monitor at the mclaren garage to make sure he really does get the same material.

Are you talking about the impartial FIA that banned the mass-damper because Renault was kicking a red squad?
Or the impartial FIA that punished a hole team because wasn't able to control the behaviour of its drivers when they were picking up at each other and nobody else in Hungary?

Lewis humiliated his team no more than Ferrari humiliated itself in Austria when "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" surpassed his team mate by team orders.

Dear P_O_L, you, being a law student should know better than anybody else that people talk too much, and that's not a crime. Furthermore, it's going to be an aid for you in the future.

As for Alonso not going to the Paris meeting... he blackmailed Ron in the first place, let's not forget that. He did well by not going to Paris. But by doing so he told everybody he actually blackmailed Ron. Otherwise he would have gone to show support for the team, as expected.

[modbaraban]

Oh and why not violins? I think a mandolin sounds better for telling sweet stories

pling pling

May I offer you a little present? Having this as avatar will save your undoubtedly precious time spent typing 'pling pling' times and times again. Enjoy


http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1794/plingwy9.gif

[NickT]

POL the hole is getting deeper, the pling pling is getting quieter as you bury your head a little bid deeper in the sand

[ben_watkins]

POL has also taken this tread way off topic... again

[Tom]

I tried to buy a banjo on ebay last week

[jumaal]

Finally, here are Heikki's comments on this subject,

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/04042008/ ... claim.html

[P_O_L]

poor dennis. Even his own drivers take the mickey out of him.

[Tom]

P_O_L, would you suck my banjo?