2017 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 25-27 August

[ismail1991]

i think this is the first time i've ever seen hamilton use some kind of thinking in a race, re: the lifting off before eau rouge to limit Vettels slipstream after.

i literally cannot think of a single moment where hamilton has done something 'clever' or 'crafty' before today - genuine question, can anyone else think of such a moment? i'm not talking about driving, just purely some strategic thinking that was purely him alone making the decision...
i could be completely wrong of course and maybe i've just forgotten.

i also don't get why people are hating on Perez. the 1st incident was 100% his fault, and he admitted as much.
The 2nd incident he was completely entitled to slowly move over - he started to move over before Ocon had even got a nose alongside - and the only reason why Ocon had his nose alongside was because he decided to keep his foot in, thinking Perez would leave him cars width - which he didn't have to do.

but, just like with a lot of these types of incidents, the driver behind assumes what the driver infront will do, and doesn't adapt or react if that driver doesn't do what he thought he would.....

I can give you one example of Hamilton slowing down for not being overtaken which is Canada 2013 the battle with Alonso. He slowed down in order to being overtaken by Alonso to get drs at the long straight.

[Restomaniac]

There was an interesting conversation on SKY F1.

They commmented about Hamilton and how he will go down in history. He is going to have a record which puts him in the conversation every time they talk about the best ever.

They made a fair point in that we don't see it ATM as he is here and now but when he is gone from F1 he will leave a huge hole to fill. In great cars of not it still takes a driver with amazing skill to go level with Schumacher in 48 races less than the great man. I doubt he will get to MS's wins (I think he will be close) but it's obvious that the pole record is shortly going to be his and by the end of his career he will be miles ahead.

[fiohaa]

Wrong. When a significant portion of an opponent's car is alongside, you must leave at least a cars width of space. This was similar to Rosberg vs Hamilton @ Barcelona 2016. Both Rosberg and Perez were at fault; Perez more so. Ocon was alongside for a longer amount of time than Hamilton was.

Well........A significant portion was not alongside the opponent car, so you're wrong.
This is the point at which Perez starts closing down the line... And for some reason Ocon thinks that Perez won't continue to keep moving right, even though its the obvious thing he would do...


This is the point just before Ocon realises whats going on and starts to back off, but simply doesn't do it quickly enough.
The gap is already too narrow even before they reach the wall.


i still maintain it was Ocon's problem and he should have simply backed out. In exactly the same way Kimi did last year on the Kemmel straight when Max closed the door, which was even later than when Perez started.

[Sevach]

Can't get my head around the Perez and Ocon shunt. If Perez escapes a penalty here, it's shameful on part of the FIA.

So what the FIA did with Perez, nothing? I can't find any news of a grid penalty, penalty points or anything...

[void]

Can't get my head around the Perez and Ocon shunt. If Perez escapes a penalty here, it's shameful on part of the FIA.

So what the FIA did with Perez, nothing? I can't find any news of a grid penalty, penalty points or anything...

I have the same question here.

[NYGIANTS]

Hamitlon said ferrari is the faster car. Interesting tactic he used to break sebastians drive into the tow! HAM didnt give full throttle out of the corner in order to compromise sebs drive into the skipstream. I felt he should have kept that one a secret!
Sebastian also confirming that his car is slightly faster than the Mercedes in the race. There you go folks!

That's useless when your car is 10 kph slower on every single straight and the other car has a an overpowered Q3 mode to easily keep him ahead in qualifying as we've seen countless times now.

Exactly. And so masterful to defend if you just need to cover the inside line because you are faster anyways. The Merc engine is too strong. Imagine where all of Hamiltons pole records (and victories) were if it wasn't for the Merc engine in the very good and reliable car.

if its just the engine where's his teammates at? rosberg is a deserving champion and very underrated as a driver and qualifier, but if lewis didn't have the blow up in malaysia he would still be driving today trying to match his dad.

its not just the engine or car. ive always said what separates lewis, vettel and alonso in a great car they can win more than 9+ races a year. where other drivers on the grid can win a few races with the merc.

[Sevach]

Wrong. When a significant portion of an opponent's car is alongside, you must leave at least a cars width of space. This was similar to Rosberg vs Hamilton @ Barcelona 2016. Both Rosberg and Perez were at fault; Perez more so. Ocon was alongside for a longer amount of time than Hamilton was.

Well........A significant portion was not alongside the opponent car, so you're wrong.
This is the point at which Perez starts closing down the line... And for some reason Ocon thinks that Perez won't continue to keep moving right, even though its the obvious thing he would do...
http://i.imgur.com/rGrpa5Rl.jpg

This is the point just before Ocon realises whats going on and starts to back off, but simply doesn't do it quickly enough.
The gap is already too narrow even before they reach the wall.
http://i.imgur.com/vraWUO6l.jpg

i still maintain it was Ocon's problem and he should have simply backed out. In exactly the same way Kimi did last year on the Kemmel straight when Max closed the door, which was even later than when Perez started.

Not even close, Kimi was never alongside, and a FW is considered a significant portion of the car, obviously Ocon's FW was there, even after he lifted. Verstappen on Kimi was borderline(the "defense" the lap before is total BS), Perez was straight illegal and dirty.

Schumacher took i think 10 place grid penalty for the move vs Barrichello at Hungary, Perez not getting anything is just not right.

[foxmulder_ms]

I cannot believe they gave 10sec stop-go penalty to Kimi. That is the same penalty Vettel got for headbutting Hamilton in Baku. Wow!!!!!!!!!

[Shrieker]

@fiohaa,

As Sevach has pointed out, the front wing counts as a significant portion of the car, and it was written verbatim into the rule to clarify situations such as this one. "'I'm closing the door, so no one should dare go in there" isn't professional motor racing. If you haven't managed to close the door in time and someone snucks their nose in, well then you're causing a collision. I've seen more professionalism in iracing (sometimes )

I'll quote the exact rule:

sporting regulation 20.4.

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.

[Kaneda]

We know that Merc will probably win in Monza next week and Ferrari will win in Singapore.
So what about other tracks? Are they "Mercedes tracks" or "Ferrari tracks"?

Sepang: Ferrari?
Suzuka: Ferrari, probably
Austin: Even?
Mexico City: Mercedes?
Sao Paulo: Mercedes?
Abu Dhabi: Ferrari?

[Dazed1]

On the first pit stop series, did Raikkonen slow some to try to block Lewis before he pitted? I thought Lewis caught up to him rather quickly. (And then ate him alive!)

To answer my own question, Lewis gained 2.5 seconds on lap 14 alone so I am guessing Raikkonen was in the backing up mode.

[PlatinumZealot]

Hamitlon said ferrari is the faster car. Interesting tactic he used to break sebastians drive into the tow! HAM didnt give full throttle out of the corner in order to compromise sebs drive into the skipstream. I felt he should have kept that one a secret!
Sebastian also confirming that his car is slightly faster than the Mercedes in the race. There you go folks!

That's useless when your car is 10 kph slower on every single straight and the other car has a an overpowered Q3 mode to easily keep him ahead in qualifying as we've seen countless times now.

Not true. Look at How Bottas was overtaken by a Renault engined car.

[PlatinumZealot]

i think this is the first time i've ever seen hamilton use some kind of thinking in a race, re: the lifting off before eau rouge to limit Vettels slipstream after.

i literally cannot think of a single moment where hamilton has done something 'clever' or 'crafty' before today - genuine question, can anyone else think of such a moment?

Erm... You obviously don't follow Hamilton closely, my friend. Which of the many highlight reels do you wanna see?

[Sevach]

i think this is the first time i've ever seen hamilton use some kind of thinking in a race, re: the lifting off before eau rouge to limit Vettels slipstream after.

i literally cannot think of a single moment where hamilton has done something 'clever' or 'crafty' before today - genuine question, can anyone else think of such a moment?

Erm... You obviously don't follow Hamilton closely, my friend. Which of the many highlight reels do you wanna see?

True, Hamilton knows every trick in the book, obviously they aren't always going to pay off, the other guys are no slouches, but Hamilton is quick to think on his feet.

[ringo]

@fiohaa,

As Sevach has pointed out, the front wing counts as a significant portion of the car, and it was written verbatim into the rule to clarify situations such as this one. "'I'm closing the door, so no one should dare go in there" isn't professional motor racing. If you haven't managed to close the door in time and someone snucks their nose in, well then you're causing a collision. I've seen more professionalism in iracing (sometimes )

I'll quote the exact rule:

sporting regulation 20.4.

20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a 'significant portion'.

I am on the fence with the ruling, initially it seemed ocon was not alongside, but he had his wing there. however, what gives the right to perez is that perez was moving in that direction before ocon wing was beside him. The stewards ruled on that.
Ocon did not attempt to pass before perez moved. In that case perez would be squeezing, but in his anger ocon forced the issue and put his nose alongside when perez was already going to the right. So there is a lot to consider here especially that this already happened in the first lap, and also the type of risk he is taking in that corner. It was also his responsibility as the follower to make sure both don't crash, as he has the better view of the situation too, and yet out of anger with the pit strategy he forced the issue.