2017 Belgian Grand Prix - Spa Francorchamps, 25-27 August

[GPR-A duplicate2]

As the senior driver in the team and having already witnessed once, about how Ocon was jumping in the space available, Perez should have left good racing room for Ocon and tuck behind him to get toe and then overtake at the end of straight. He should have realized that, him trying to be ahead at that exact point, was only suicidal because after Radillon, Ocon would have got a great toe and would most likely have passed.

With a rookie, Perez is driving like a rookie which is only going to damage his reputation even more. Ocon would be forgiven for being a rookie and would be appreciated for his speed and zeal, but Perez? He is going to suffer the worst outcome.

Perez has to blame himself for screwing the relationship with Ocon with his selfish approach in Canada. With the speed difference between the two fast diminishing, it wouldn't be a surprise to see Ocon beating Perez constantly next year. Just the way Max is doing (while Renault PU isn't like it. ).

Not sure how much the following is true and how much that is affecting Perez.
Link -> Perez disillusioned because he is not released from the team

[Schuttelberg]

As the senior driver in the team and having already witnessed once, about how Ocon was jumping in the space available, Perez should have left good racing room for Ocon and tuck behind him to get toe and then overtake at the end of straight. He should have realized that, him trying to be ahead at that exact point, was only suicidal because after Radillon, Ocon would have got a great toe and would most likely have passed.

With a rookie, Perez is driving like a rookie which is only going to damage his reputation even more. Ocon would be forgiven for being a rookie and would be appreciated for his speed and zeal, but Perez? He is going to suffer the worst outcome.

Perez has to blame himself for screwing the relationship with Ocon with his selfish approach in Canada. With the speed difference between the two fast diminishing, it wouldn't be a surprise to see Ocon beating Perez constantly next year. Just the way Max is doing (while Renault PU isn't like it. ).

Not sure how much the following is true and how much that is affecting Perez.
Link -> Perez disillusioned because he is not released from the team

In my opinion, Perez suffers when put under pressure. I get the feeling that he's in the race for an important seat with another driver and he's desperate. It also happened at McLaren with Button.

[George-Jung]

i think this is the first time i've ever seen hamilton use some kind of thinking in a race, re: the lifting off before eau rouge to limit Vettels slipstream after.

i literally cannot think of a single moment where hamilton has done something 'clever' or 'crafty' before today - genuine question, can anyone else think of such a moment? i'm not talking about driving, just purely some strategic thinking that was purely him alone making the decision...
i could be completely wrong of course and maybe i've just forgotten.

i also don't get why people are hating on Perez. the 1st incident was 100% his fault, and he admitted as much.
The 2nd incident he was completely entitled to slowly move over - he started to move over before Ocon had even got a nose alongside - and the only reason why Ocon had his nose alongside was because he decided to keep his foot in, thinking Perez would leave him cars width - which he didn't have to do.

but, just like with a lot of these types of incidents, the driver behind assumes what the driver infront will do, and doesn't adapt or react if that driver doesn't do what he thought he would.....

I can give you one example of Hamilton slowing down for not being overtaken which is Canada 2013 the battle with Alonso. He slowed down in order to being overtaken by Alonso to get drs at the long straight.

Wrong- Alonso noticed it and also slowed down, thus resulting in staying behind and have the DRS.

https://youtu.be/S3kbxjBAYmM

[Restomaniac]

As the senior driver in the team and having already witnessed once, about how Ocon was jumping in the space available, Perez should have left good racing room for Ocon and tuck behind him to get toe and then overtake at the end of straight. He should have realized that, him trying to be ahead at that exact point, was only suicidal because after Radillon, Ocon would have got a great toe and would most likely have passed.

With a rookie, Perez is driving like a rookie which is only going to damage his reputation even more. Ocon would be forgiven for being a rookie and would be appreciated for his speed and zeal, but Perez? He is going to suffer the worst outcome.

Perez has to blame himself for screwing the relationship with Ocon with his selfish approach in Canada. With the speed difference between the two fast diminishing, it wouldn't be a surprise to see Ocon beating Perez constantly next year. Just the way Max is doing (while Renault PU isn't like it. ).

Not sure how much the following is true and how much that is affecting Perez.
Link -> Perez disillusioned because he is not released from the team

In my opinion, Perez suffers when put under pressure. I get the feeling that he's in the race for an important seat with another driver and he's desperate. It also happened at McLaren with Button.

Yep the button situation is what it reminded me of. How many exasperated team radio messages did we get off JB that season.

[Vanja #66]

There was an interesting conversation on SKY F1.

They commmented about Hamilton and how he will go down in history. He is going to have a record which puts him in the conversation every time they talk about the best ever.

They made a fair point in that we don't see it ATM as he is here and now but when he is gone from F1 he will leave a huge hole to fill. In great cars of not it still takes a driver with amazing skill to go level with Schumacher in 48 races less than the great man. I doubt he will get to MS's wins (I think he will be close) but it's obvious that the pole record is shortly going to be his and by the end of his career he will be miles ahead.

Senna had almost as many pole positions in a lot fewer races, not always in cars capable of winning championships - unlike Lewis. It takes skill, but skill is not enough...

Well........A significant portion was not alongside the opponent car, so you're wrong.
This is the point at which Perez starts closing down the line... And for some reason Ocon thinks that Perez won't continue to keep moving right, even though its the obvious thing he would do...
http://i.imgur.com/rGrpa5Rl.jpg

This is the point just before Ocon realises whats going on and starts to back off, but simply doesn't do it quickly enough.
The gap is already too narrow even before they reach the wall.
http://i.imgur.com/vraWUO6l.jpg

i still maintain it was Ocon's problem and he should have simply backed out. In exactly the same way Kimi did last year on the Kemmel straight when Max closed the door, which was even later than when Perez started.

It's definitely Ocon's rage for not being taken in for tyre swap before Perez that caused this. In general this year with the two of them, Ocon is the one who attacks when it's not possible... Perez was in front, he had the racing line and Ocon went in there just like he did at the beginning of the race. If that first lap was hectic and hard racing, this second contact is Ocon's own doing.

[iotar__]

- Almost borefest with little competition starting with top two, fake drama and some randomness added. Ferrari were not outdeveloped and missing 40HP magic engine boost.
- Raikkonen celebrated Ferrari extension with trade mark performance - slow and a stupid penalty.

- Ocon tries moves he can't pull off with predictable results, another radio messages hero racer. FI deserve consequences of accepting Wolff's driver mediocrity with inflated ego and little skills to back it up. Team should order him to learn the basics.

- Good for Haas. Grosjean had another 110% race.
- Perez's obvious penalty should remind everyone FIA's cheating in Mex '16 to help Hamilton. Alonso pushing Palmer off was much worse than Mag-Hulk Hun. F1 = farce.

[sosic2121]

I cannot believe they gave 10sec stop-go penalty to Kimi. That is the same penalty Vettel got for headbutting Hamilton in Baku. Wow!!!!!!!!!

FIA

[TwanV]

Well........A significant portion was not alongside the opponent car, so you're wrong.
This is the point at which Perez starts closing down the line... And for some reason Ocon thinks that Perez won't continue to keep moving right, even though its the obvious thing he would do...
http://i.imgur.com/rGrpa5Rl.jpg

This is the point just before Ocon realises whats going on and starts to back off, but simply doesn't do it quickly enough.
The gap is already too narrow even before they reach the wall.
http://i.imgur.com/vraWUO6l.jpg

i still maintain it was Ocon's problem and he should have simply backed out. In exactly the same way Kimi did last year on the Kemmel straight when Max closed the door, which was even later than when Perez started.

It's definitely Ocon's rage for not being taken in for tyre swap before Perez that caused this. In general this year with the two of them, Ocon is the one who attacks when it's not possible... Perez was in front, he had the racing line and Ocon went in there just like he did at the beginning of the race. If that first lap was hectic and hard racing, this second contact is Ocon's own doing.

Couldn't agree more. And to claim your teammate to be homicidal afterwards.. Unbelievable.

[Andres125sx]

For all those who believe this conspiracy crap and pretend like Kimi is being wronged, he just renewed again for Ferrari. So, he either accepts his place or there is no such hierarchy which I believe is the case.

Bottom line is that Sebastian Vettel is by far the better driver.

WDC:

1- Vettel 202 points
2- Hamilton 188 points
.
.
5- Raikonnen 116 points

Ferrari has a #1 and #2, as any team would do with his drivers in these positions in the WDC. Doing any other thing would be utterly stupid.

It´s been the same forever, but some people can´t see through stereotypes, and keep thinking Ferrari provide TOs from first GP and the rest don´t

Anycase I must say Seb lap was asthonishing, or to be more precise, sector 3 was asthonishing, he made the record there and it caught by surprise anyone, including De la Rosa and Toni Cuquerella at the spanish TV, and they´re two guys who are barely suprised by anything in F1, so when I´ve read Seb got a tow at sector 3 everything got sense, it surely was noticeable

42.7, only 2 tenths off Lewis, it was unbelieveble, good job for both Ferrari drivers. It´s a pitty Kimi didn´t make a proper lap as he surely deserved a better grid postion

as any team would do? I guess you didn't watch last race in Hungary when Hamilton was asked to give his position back to Bottas.

Yes I did but... did you watch Toto´s reaction?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AurfDcOHQQA

Do you think they will repeat it?

I´m with Toto, it´s utterly stupid

[Phil]

You are reading too much into Toto's reaction. The RTL post race interview of Hungary made it pretty evident that Toto wanted the positions reversed. His demeanour was probably due to the argument he had with Niki before (who was rather vocal post race that the positions should not have been reversed).

[ismail1991]

i think this is the first time i've ever seen hamilton use some kind of thinking in a race, re: the lifting off before eau rouge to limit Vettels slipstream after.

i literally cannot think of a single moment where hamilton has done something 'clever' or 'crafty' before today - genuine question, can anyone else think of such a moment? i'm not talking about driving, just purely some strategic thinking that was purely him alone making the decision...
i could be completely wrong of course and maybe i've just forgotten.

i also don't get why people are hating on Perez. the 1st incident was 100% his fault, and he admitted as much.
The 2nd incident he was completely entitled to slowly move over - he started to move over before Ocon had even got a nose alongside - and the only reason why Ocon had his nose alongside was because he decided to keep his foot in, thinking Perez would leave him cars width - which he didn't have to do.

but, just like with a lot of these types of incidents, the driver behind assumes what the driver infront will do, and doesn't adapt or react if that driver doesn't do what he thought he would.....

I can give you one example of Hamilton slowing down for not being overtaken which is Canada 2013 the battle with Alonso. He slowed down in order to being overtaken by Alonso to get drs at the long straight.

Wrong- Alonso noticed it and also slowed down, thus resulting in staying behind and have the DRS.

https://youtu.be/S3kbxjBAYmM

I would say Hamilton's tactisc that time didn't work but I have never seen anybody else slowing down for taking drs ever.

[Mandrake]

There was an interesting conversation on SKY F1.

They commmented about Hamilton and how he will go down in history. He is going to have a record which puts him in the conversation every time they talk about the best ever.

They made a fair point in that we don't see it ATM as he is here and now but when he is gone from F1 he will leave a huge hole to fill. In great cars of not it still takes a driver with amazing skill to go level with Schumacher in 48 races less than the great man. I doubt he will get to MS's wins (I think he will be close) but it's obvious that the pole record is shortly going to be his and by the end of his career he will be miles ahead.

Obviously this is going into Ying Yang mode, but I have some gripes with these Hamilton glorifications....

Look at the past years where Hamilton got so many Pole positions being in the most dominant car ever, especially in Qualifying. He only had to fight his own team mate and not many other drivers as in the 80s 90s and 2000s. Given he is a good qualifier this number is just blown out of proportions. Also: the cars nowadays are bulletproof. Back in the days look how often the Ferrari of Michael broke down. There could so many more victories to his name. Not that Hamilton can do anything against that.

I seriously hope no one gets to touch Michaels victory record because the way he achieved it was magical. There are so many videos on Youtube showing him wrestling the car around really outdriving everyone by seconds!! per lap.

[Mandrake]

I cannot believe they gave 10sec stop-go penalty to Kimi. That is the same penalty Vettel got for headbutting Hamilton in Baku. Wow!!!!!!!!!

Now, a car travelling at 320kph with people on the race track is so much more dangerous than playing bumper cars at very low speeds. No lifes were at risk in Baku whereas in Spa they were. Just a spontaneous tire explosion and Kimi has no control over the place he is going to crash into.

As for the "oh my gawd F1 drivers need to be role models" discussion: I would love to crash my car into another car on the highway every second day. People pull out right in front of me, block the fast lane, run 10cm from my boot, if I was rich and did not have to care I would just plow into them as well. At least in the heat of the moment. And I'm very likely not the only one.

[NathanOlder]

i think this is the first time i've ever seen hamilton use some kind of thinking in a race, re: the lifting off before eau rouge to limit Vettels slipstream after.

i literally cannot think of a single moment where hamilton has done something 'clever' or 'crafty' before today - genuine question, can anyone else think of such a moment? i'm not talking about driving, just purely some strategic thinking that was purely him alone making the decision...
i could be completely wrong of course and maybe i've just forgotten.

i also don't get why people are hating on Perez. the 1st incident was 100% his fault, and he admitted as much.
The 2nd incident he was completely entitled to slowly move over - he started to move over before Ocon had even got a nose alongside - and the only reason why Ocon had his nose alongside was because he decided to keep his foot in, thinking Perez would leave him cars width - which he didn't have to do.

but, just like with a lot of these types of incidents, the driver behind assumes what the driver infront will do, and doesn't adapt or react if that driver doesn't do what he thought he would.....

I can give you one example of Hamilton slowing down for not being overtaken which is Canada 2013 the battle with Alonso. He slowed down in order to being overtaken by Alonso to get drs at the long straight.

Wrong- Alonso noticed it and also slowed down, thus resulting in staying behind and have the DRS.

https://youtu.be/S3kbxjBAYmM

He'snot wrong. He is 100% correct. You are wrong in saying he is wrong. Hamilton was using smart tactics and tried to let Alonso pass before the DRS line. This time Alonso was equally as smart and stopped that happening. 2 very smart drivers right there in the video you posted.

[WaikeCU]

So Hamilton on tyres that are 2 steps slower kept Vettel behind him. Sorry but if that Ferrari was that fast Vettel should have eaten Hamilton. Moreover we had Kimi who was super quick all weekend on Ultras only pull a 2 second lead over Bottas in 5th who was also tyres 2 steps slower.

None of that screams 'Ferrari is faster'.

...and by the end of the race = low fuel load = quali pace?