2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[HPD]

I do not understand why Mclaren, who is so great and glorious, is being pushed by a simple pilot (a good pilot, but still a simple pilot).
Seeing Mclaren how to crawl for Alonso to stay, is a shame.
A pilot who has a couple of years left to finish his career, and after that happened with Mclaren?

[Fifty]

Problem for Alonso is this is not the first time he made up a failure. Honda came out about this after China I think because of a second fake failure in a row.
And then there was the fake driveshaft failure because sainz passed him in a chicane.

It's a truthfulness and drama thing that has followed Alonso through out his career.

[Sayeman]

No driver is perfect, everyone has faults and foibles..Alonso is one the best drivers in the F1 history, his ability to extract 110% from a car is really something amazing and Honda hasn't produced a PU that's worthy of him but why are some people getting so worked up over his criticism? Noone's here saying Alonso is incompetent, just a bit petulant, that's all.

@ALO_Power mate? Calm down, will ya?

[Zynerji]

Super stars have their scars...

[604gtir]

don't you get a free gearbox change if you retire with engine issues in race?

[BeardedAce]

The only thing we know for sure about Ron Dennis is how he favored Hamilton in 2007 and sabotaged Alonso.

That's your opinion..
What happened in 2007 is that Alonso got outperformed by a Rookie, fact. But i don't think this discussion should be in this forum, so don't wanna talk about it anymore.

[proteus]

No driver is perfect, everyone has faults and foibles..Alonso is one the best drivers in the F1 history, his ability to extract 110% from a car is really something amazing and Honda hasn't produced a PU that's worthy of him but why are some people getting so worked up over his criticism? Noone's here saying Alonso is incompetent, just a bit petulant, that's all.

@ALO_Power mate? Calm down, will ya?

Noone can extract 110% out of the car, If he would be able to do so, he would bend the laws of physics.

[BeardedAce]

I do not understand why Mclaren, who is so great and glorious, is being pushed by a simple pilot (a good pilot, but still a simple pilot).
Seeing Mclaren how to crawl for Alonso to stay, is a shame.
A pilot who has a couple of years left to finish his career, and after that happened with Mclaren?

Mclaren is lacking leadership. The Bahraini owners are treating Mclaren as one of their fancy toys, don't think they have much knowledge on how to run an F1 team, Ojjeh is there but doesn't seem to have the qualities a leader should have. Zak and Boullier are simple employees, not decision makers.

Would Ferrari or Mercedes tolerate their drivers retiring on purpose without the sensors showing any problem with the car? I doubt it.

Honda needs to improve fast, 3 years gone, they have to deliver, otherwise things will get very ugly with legal complications.

[Soichiro]

Honda needs to improve fast, 3 years gone, they have to deliver, otherwise things will get very ugly with legal complications.

3rd year will be gone in November until then they have time to further develop & test the engine modifications / correlations... Things might get ugly (well things already are ugly) but legal complications could be more on the McLaren/Alonso site. If McLaren had something in the contract to threaten Honda they would have already done so. This public bashing only shows McLarens' state of helplessness.

I am still awaiting the spec 4 to see where they can push it this year.

[ZakB]

Honda needs to improve fast, 3 years gone, they have to deliver, otherwise things will get very ugly with legal complications.

3rd year will be gone in November until then they have time to further develop & test the engine modifications / correlations... Things might get ugly (well things already are ugly) but legal complications could be more on the McLaren/Alonso site. If McLaren had something in the contract to threaten Honda they would have already done so. This public bashing only shows McLarens' state of helplessness.

I am still awaiting the spec 4 to see where they can push it this year.

Spec 4 (which they will now call spec 5) will come in October, after the Japanese GP. Too little, too late.

They need to switch to Renault asap. Honda is currently 80BHP down on the customer engines of Mercedes. No way that they are going to close that gap this year or next year. Stop believing in miracles, because it won't happen. It's sad seeing McLaren like this.

[Sayeman]

Honda needs to improve fast, 3 years gone, they have to deliver, otherwise things will get very ugly with legal complications.

3rd year will be gone in November until then they have time to further develop & test the engine modifications / correlations... Things might get ugly (well things already are ugly) but legal complications could be more on the McLaren/Alonso site. If McLaren had something in the contract to threaten Honda they would have already done so. This public bashing only shows McLarens' state of helplessness.

I am still awaiting the spec 4 to see where they can push it this year.

Spec 4 (which they will now call spec 5) will come in October, after the Japanese GP. Too little, too late.

They need to switch to Renault asap. Honda is currently 80BHP down on the customer engines of Mercedes. No way that they are going to close that gap this year or next year. Stop believing in miracles, because it won't happen. It's sad seeing McLaren like this.

Numerous sites are reporting that Alonso will take engine penalty in Monza and with it the new Spec 4 PU. Not confirmed but understood.

[OviJohn]

I like Alonso, but he's still an employee. You must learn to respect your team.
In my country, if you speak ill of your boss ... then you will be fired.

In my country (wich is the same as Alonso) we fire those who can´t accomplish their own promises, in this case, Honda

Showing frustration when promises are broken is considered normal around here. Not there?

OT:
I also live in Spain, and you might get away with that attitude working at a bar or small family owned business. Theres a huge "seniority culture" here compared to corps I worked for over in the US; which have a high value for talent and accountability. So being up front about failure is not what I´ve usually experienced.

I work for a "big corp" here, and If you dare voice your frustrations as Alonso does, trust me, the least you´d get is a "yellow card" with good old HHRR department, and if done again, you´re out or can simply kiss your career progression good bye. The only way to get away with certain attitudes againt bosses here is by being heavily involved with an Union. (ELA, for example) And that certainly wont allow you to go and humiliate your bosses everytime you feel like it

So in case you do fail to meet deadlines or expectations, you will surely get fire, although there´s more tolerance due to good "pro labour laws", which would usually get you somewhat demoted or moved to another department, instead of being bluntly fired.

So getting a bit back to topic, Alonso is not doing himself any more favors by keeping the pressure on Honda with those radio messages and interviews. In fact, he might just be burning bridges with other manufacturers/teams on the grid. You could say that his awesome talent comes with great brand cost/liability if things are not working as he expects.

[OviJohn]

Honda needs to improve fast, 3 years gone, they have to deliver, otherwise things will get very ugly with legal complications.

3rd year will be gone in November until then they have time to further develop & test the engine modifications / correlations... Things might get ugly (well things already are ugly) but legal complications could be more on the McLaren/Alonso site. If McLaren had something in the contract to threaten Honda they would have already done so. This public bashing only shows McLarens' state of helplessness.

I am still awaiting the spec 4 to see where they can push it this year.

Totally agree with you mate. Honda better pull a rabbit under the hat with that spec 4 or else... [-o<

[ZakB]

3rd year will be gone in November until then they have time to further develop & test the engine modifications / correlations... Things might get ugly (well things already are ugly) but legal complications could be more on the McLaren/Alonso site. If McLaren had something in the contract to threaten Honda they would have already done so. This public bashing only shows McLarens' state of helplessness.

I am still awaiting the spec 4 to see where they can push it this year.

Spec 4 (which they will now call spec 5) will come in October, after the Japanese GP. Too little, too late.

They need to switch to Renault asap. Honda is currently 80BHP down on the customer engines of Mercedes. No way that they are going to close that gap this year or next year. Stop believing in miracles, because it won't happen. It's sad seeing McLaren like this.

Numerous sites are reporting that Alonso will take engine penalty in Monza and with it the new Spec 4 PU. Not confirmed but understood.

It's not the big update, that one is coming in Oktober (referred to as spec 4 in this topic previously).

I like Alonso, but he's still an employee. You must learn to respect your team.
In my country, if you speak ill of your boss ... then you will be fired.

In my country (wich is the same as Alonso) we fire those who can´t accomplish their own promises, in this case, Honda

Showing frustration when promises are broken is considered normal around here. Not there?

OT:
I also live in Spain, and you might get away with that attitude working at a bar or small family owned business. Theres a huge "seniority culture" here compared to corps I worked for over in the US; which have a high value for talent and accountability. So being up front about failure is not what I´ve usually experienced.

I work for a "big corp" here, and If you dare voice your frustrations as Alonso does, trust me, the least you´d get is a "yellow card" with good old HHRR department, and if done again, you´re out or can simply kiss your career progression good bye. The only way to get away with certain attitudes againt bosses here is by being heavily involved with an Union. (ELA, for example) And that certainly wont allow you to go and humiliate your bosses everytime you feel like it

So in case you do fail to meet deadlines or expectations, you will surely get fire, although there´s more tolerance due to good "pro labour laws", which would usually get you somewhat demoted or moved to another department, instead of being bluntly fired.

So getting a bit back to topic, Alonso is not doing himself any more favors by keeping the pressure on Honda with those radio messages and interviews. In fact, he might just be burning bridges with other manufacturers/teams on the grid. You could say that his awesome talent comes with great brand cost/liability if things are not working as he expects.

McLaren-Renault is his only option. Williams is just a joke and Renault is probably looking for a cheaper/younger driver and they are still rebuilding, don't think they would be a match for McLaren with the same engine. According to Auto Motor und Sport it is clear that McLaren wants out, but Honda wants to stay, although they feel that their relationship is badly damaged.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 86247.html

[taperoo2k]

Auto motor und sport says, Mclaren is looking to solicit 200 million from Honda after their divorce and Honda doesn't want to pay it, wants to continue in F1 and has made that clear to the FIA.

The FIA probably won't approve Renault supplying another team if it means Honda is forced out of the sport (unless Red Bull decide to saddle TR with Honda engines with an option for the main team to take the Honda PU's on should they come good).
McLaren is likely stuck with Honda until the contract runs out. Doesn't seem like a logical choice for Renault to supply a team like McLaren while it's still rebuilding it's works team. And tbh Renault are still miles behind Mercedes and Ferrari in power unit performance, so while it would improve McLaren's results, it wouldn't get them any closer to being able to win races and titles on merit.

Anyway I guess everything hinges on what Spec 4 brings.