2017 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 1-3 September

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Is Ferrari going to do some experiment for Friday? May be the older spec for Kimi and new spec for Vettel and see which one would be more ideal for the GP?

Race Distance: 306.5 Kms. So, oil burning advantage lost would be 900 gms, compared to Mercedes over a race. Mercedes can use 3.6 litres (1.2 litres / 100 Kms) and Ferrari can use 2.7 litres (0.9 litre/ 100kms).
If we assume, they pump the oil on every lap, it would be 0.06 litre/lap for Mercedes and 0.05 litre/lap for Ferrari.
If they don't do that every lap, then ideally, they can push 1.2 litre/0.9 litre in race, at whatever time they want, once every 100 kms. Not such a great handicap for races.

In qualifying, assuming the trick is used in the Q3 for 2 laps (ultimate power), how much of oil can they burn? I am not sure. I haven't read any regulation that talks about qualifying. Every article talks about race situation. Will that be pro-rata basis?
Meaning, if 1.2 litre/100 kms, then a lap of 5.79 Kms would get to use 0.069 litre for Mercedes and 0.052 litre for Ferrari. OR is there any other understanding that I don't know?

I am trying to understand, what is it really worth? They carry 105 kg fuel in their tanks in race and each lap requires 1.9 Kg on equal basis (more at the start and less at the end). Even in qualifying, they have to stick to that 100Kg/hour at 10,500RPM rule. So, it's not like they can use 5 or 6 Kg fuel per lap. Correct?
Let's say they consider the distance covered in whole of qualifying and allow the total oil usage based on number of Kms done throughout quali and team can use the cumulative total available, then based on the laps done in quali, Mercedes/Ferrari should be 12 laps (including out lap, flier and in lap) that totals to 68.4 Kms each. So, Mercedes would get a total of 0.8 litre to be used for 2 fliers and Ferrari gets 0.6 litre for 2 fliers. So, each flier, it would be like 0.4 litre for Merc and 0.3 litre for Ferrari.

How much difference is 0.1 litre going to change the performance between Merc and Ferrari over a lap? I don't think the changes would handicap Ferrari by like, 5 or 10 BHP or something, which would be a real handicap in qualifying.

I am crazy here. Can someone knowledgeable enlighten us here?

[Emil_Kyulev]

Williams should be strong this race, probably going to be winning the midfield battle.

[Emil_Kyulev]

Perez only 11 points behind Max. Who would have thought that?

Not surprising with all those DNFs

[godlameroso]

They wouldn't reduce power like that, what does oil do to gasoline when mixed? It lowers it's octane, it makes it more volatile, it's a way around the 87 octane lower limit set in the regulations. Prechamber fuel is a fraction of the overall mixture in the cylinder so you only need enough to supply the "pre-chamber" with a more volatile fluid to ensure igniting the main charge. Ultimately nothing will change.

You're allowed 2 liters of fuel outside of the main fuel tank, and they're making it so you can only burn .9 liters of oil per 100km as opposed to 1.2, pre-Monza. This means 2.7, and 3.6 liters of oil consumed per race respectively, not exactly a whole lot considering they're burning 145ish liters of fuel per race. Goes to show how efficient reactivity controlled ignition (RCI) can be.

[f1316]

I think it's pretty crazy to have cars running parts - particularly highly influential parts like engines - to different specifications on the same weekend. It's like having teams running to a different 'formula'.

Now the blame is certainly not Mercedes' - they were smart in getting their engine in early (so long as it will last til the end if season, in combo with used parts) - but a mid-season ruling like this from the FIA has the ability to create an uneven playing field in what is likely to be a tight run in to the season, where every tenth matters.

Rather, they could have just introduced regs to stop oil burning in the off season and avoided the whole debacle.

Too late now and interested to see the difference it makes. Undoubtedly Mercedes wouldn't have introduced the new engine in Spa unless they felt it was beneficial though.

[Xwang]

I wonder how mercedes will comply with the rule that requires that the engines used by work team and clients must be of the same spec.
If I have correctly understood up to now they have homologated 4 specs (which is the maximum, is it?).
If it is so, when the clients will homologate their 4th engine with the 0.9 oil / 100 km usage limit, how will that engine be considered? The same as the mercedes? Or a 5th one?

[TAG]

What am I missing? why didn't Ferrari do likewise introducing a new ICE in Spa? The only reason I can think of is that it would have meant a grid penalty, effectively handing Mercedes the 1-2.

[Xwang]

Why a grid penality?
They don't have used a 4th ICE yet.

[matt_b]

What am I missing? why didn't Ferrari do likewise introducing a new ICE in Spa? The only reason I can think of is that it would have meant a grid penalty, effectively handing Mercedes the 1-2.

Just a theory but maybe with the removal of their second oil tank a few races ago they don't burn 1.2L of oil with the new engine they introduced in Silverstone so they had nothing to gain bringing a new engine for Spa.

[Juzh]

Why a grid penality?
They don't have used a 4th ICE yet.

He probably confused it with TCs, of which they have used 4 elements already on both cars.

[Xwang]

Moreover I would like to know why the 2nd oil tank has been immediately banned and then Mercedes is allowed to burn more oil than their clients and all the others.

[Sevach]

What am I missing? why didn't Ferrari do likewise introducing a new ICE in Spa? The only reason I can think of is that it would have meant a grid penalty, effectively handing Mercedes the 1-2.

Just a theory but maybe with the removal of their second oil tank a few races ago they don't burn 1.2L of oil with the new engine they introduced in Silverstone so they had nothing to gain bringing a new engine for Spa.

That sounds likely the case to me, Ferrari method of introducing oil into the engine got written off so it doesn't make a huge difference for them.

I'm also curious if they'll update for Monza or take their time, it's almost a Ferrari tradition to have a new engine at Monza but it might be a good time to forget their "Italianess" and get more time in development, specially since Mercedes already played their cards.

[zioture]

Video Preview Monza

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz4bgvV4Qy0

[TAG]

Moreover I would like to know why the 2nd oil tank has been immediately banned and then Mercedes is allowed to burn more oil than their clients and all the others.

They couldn't make the primary oil tank .3 liters larger? The second tank was clearly for something else. You can burn oil naturally as the natural lubricant of the pistons etc, some will get past the piston rings and burn along with the fuel. (This is the Mercedes way) When the 2nd tank was removed the FiA was also clarifying the additives in the oil. Clearly saying that no additives for the sake of increasing the combustibilit of the oil could be used. The other way to get oil to burn is to inject it mixed in to the fuel. That was the likely reason for the existence of the second tank and additional plumbing. Remember they made sure to specify the plumbing needed to be removed as well.

[F1NAC]

What am I missing? why didn't Ferrari do likewise introducing a new ICE in Spa? The only reason I can think of is that it would have meant a grid penalty, effectively handing Mercedes the 1-2.

Just a theory but maybe with the removal of their second oil tank a few races ago they don't burn 1.2L of oil with the new engine they introduced in Silverstone so they had nothing to gain bringing a new engine for Spa.

That sounds likely the case to me, Ferrari method of introducing oil into the engine got written off so it doesn't make a huge difference for them.

I'm also curious if they'll update for Monza or take their time, it's almost a Ferrari tradition to have a new engine at Monza but it might be a good time to forget their "Italianess" and get more time in development, specially since Mercedes already played their cards.

Is it clever to use engine that did few races and including spa? I mean it will be major stress for current ice to run few races plus spa and monza.