2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Wazari
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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bill shoe wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 02:35
If a staff member actually explicitly says that to a manager then yes the manager must invite them to leave. However, low performance engines apparently do influence the manager's ability to recruit and retain good staff. Vasseur at Sauber apparently put his foot down about ditching Honda engines in order to motivate and retain good staff.
Sauber's decision to "ditch" Honda PU was their inability to build a gearbox for the PU or procure one. Sorry off topic.
“If Honda does not race, there is no Honda.”

“Success represents the 1% of your work which results from the 99% that is called failure.”

-- Honda Soichiro

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Zynerji
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Wazari wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 03:14
bill shoe wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 02:35
If a staff member actually explicitly says that to a manager then yes the manager must invite them to leave. However, low performance engines apparently do influence the manager's ability to recruit and retain good staff. Vasseur at Sauber apparently put his foot down about ditching Honda engines in order to motivate and retain good staff.
Sauber's decision to "ditch" Honda PU was their inability to build a gearbox for the PU or procure one. Sorry off topic.
Couldn't they get Xtrac, or ANY team to build their design? I mean, they can adapt an entire chassis to a new engine, I somehow doubt the gearbox alone was the single point failure in this arrangement...

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Wazari
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Zynerji wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 03:53

Couldn't they get Xtrac, or ANY team to build their design? I mean, they can adapt an entire chassis to a new engine, I somehow doubt the gearbox alone was the single point failure in this arrangement...
Sure....but time and money being limiting factors. These gearboxes are not as simple as your basic transmission in a road car. To build a gearbox from scratch to match a PU to your chassis and have enough units to last a season for two cars is probably a 17 to 22 million USD investment. McLaren's gearbox cost about 650,000 USD each not including the design work.
“If Honda does not race, there is no Honda.”

“Success represents the 1% of your work which results from the 99% that is called failure.”

-- Honda Soichiro

CBeck113
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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bill shoe wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 02:39
There's a silver lining to Alonso's dwindling options. Honda USA and Andretti Racing just confirmed they will be together again next year in Indycars, something that didn't look likely one month ago. If Alonso stays at McLaren-Honda then there would be nothing stopping a mutual McLaren-Alonso decision to do Indy again.
This is a very important point which can also help keep Alonso where he is. They (Honda) are bending over backwards to appease to him ... like their development processes I'm not so sure this is the correct approach, unless they firmly believe that the bad publicity is necessary to pressure Honda's senior management into making the necessary changes (but they are the ones with the bank account :roll: ).
“Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!” Monty Python and the Holy Grail

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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NathanOlder wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 22:24
All I am reading now is Alonso & Andres125sx vs The World #-o
If "the world" is the BS media articles who have nothing to write about in august, and internet rants by fanboys, then thank you very much for your kind words :mrgreen: :lol: :lol:

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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CBeck113 wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 08:05
bill shoe wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 02:39
There's a silver lining to Alonso's dwindling options. Honda USA and Andretti Racing just confirmed they will be together again next year in Indycars, something that didn't look likely one month ago. If Alonso stays at McLaren-Honda then there would be nothing stopping a mutual McLaren-Alonso decision to do Indy again.
This is a very important point which can also help keep Alonso where he is. They (Honda) are bending over backwards to appease to him ... like their development processes I'm not so sure this is the correct approach, unless they firmly believe that the bad publicity is necessary to pressure Honda's senior management into making the necessary changes (but they are the ones with the bank account :roll: ).
Any source for the bolded part or just as assumption?

I think it´s exactly the opposite, Honda do things their way, wich is slowly learning by their own experience instead of relying on external people with experience. And that´s the reason for Alonso´s rants. If McLaren would disagree with Alonso, they would have stopped him a long time ago. In my eyes McLaren is using Alonso character to put some pressure on Honda on a desperate attempt to push the japaneese into a faster developing process.

Not sure if it´s working or not, but to me it´s clear Alonso is not speaking for himself, but for the whole team. Well the team is british so I´m sure they would be more polite on their complains :mrgreen: but probably that´s the reason they use Alonso to put some pressure on Honda. Also, people maybe don´t know, but teams can ban radio comunications so FIA don´t broadcast it. Any rant we hear from Alonso has been approved by McLaren for broadcasting. It´s not only Alonso who is becoming impatient, it´s the whole McLaren team, or they would have never had meetings with different PU manufacturers to evaluate if it would be worth a switch


Because sincerely, when people say things like "Alonso is just an employee who shouldn´t complain about the team", they don´t realice the team is McLaren, not Honda, and McLaren is as desperate with Honda as Alonso himself

jz11
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Andres125sx wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 08:53
... It´s not only Alonso who is becoming impatient, it´s the whole McLaren team, or they would have never had meetings with different PU manufacturers to evaluate if it would be worth a switch
it is an age old tactic to get a better deal from your business partner by showing other options, it is entirely possible that they didn't even have any real notion to really go ahead with any switch, they just used the situation to their advantage to get a better deal with Honda, this is business after all...

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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i'll just leave this here.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/08/31 ... mpionship/
Alonso: We could have the package to win a championship

Less than a week after declaring his

with the under powered McLaren-Honda during the Belgian Grand Prix, Fernando Alonso has made a remarkable u-turn by telling reporters that he is happy where he is and confident that he may have a championship package next year.

Speaking ahead of the Italian grand Prix weekend, Alonso declared, “I am extremely happy here and l believe that here we could have the package to win a championship.”

Amid McLaren’s worst season in history, Alonso has previously made it clear that he available to a team capable of winning races. But the big four – Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and Red Bull – are not interested.

However the Spaniard was adamant he had several offers on the table and that his stock in the sport was at the highest level since he entered Formula 1. More than once he made it known that Honda’s problems were unacceptable.

The Spaniard now claims that suggestions he would leave McLaren, unless they ditched Honda, were “absolute rubbish.”

Instead he says he is awaiting what McLaren have in mind for him beyond 2017, “We will see what the proposals are. If they are very good, maybe two years could work. Maybe one year, maybe three, maybe five – l am young enough.”

“I will start sitting down with the team, what are the prospects for the future, the expectation for next year,” Alonso told reporters. We do now have some ingredients to be champions.”

“The team has improved a lot in the last three years from the time l arrived here. We have the talent, we have the facilities, we just miss being a bit more competitive – which is the most important bit. But we will see what the numbers say for next year and after that l will make a decision.”

With Ferrari and Red Bull driver line-ups for 2018 sorted, Mercedes looking set to retain Valtteri Bottas and Lewis Hamilton looking to extend beyond his current deal which terminates at the end of 2018.

Most recently Renault have said they are

for the Spaniard, which he acknowledged, “Renault have already said that next year they will not be ready, so they are honest too.

Furthermore, at Monza, Alonso denied he has lost faith in Honda’s ability to become competitive, “You never know. It’s the same thing with Ferrari in 2014-2015 when they made a huge step with the engine.”

“If you get the right direction, everything improves and the results quickly show. It’s something l need to understand – what are the developments, the next steps. They have the experience of the last three years so it’s possible,” added the two times F1 World Champion.

Meanwhile Williams have

they have even talked to Alonso with regards to a deal for next year, in the wake of numerous reports linking him to the team.

Regarding reports that he retired from the Belgian Grand Prix despite there being no problem with his car or power unit, confirmed by Honda, Alonso said, “I read that and was surprised the people forgot that I was racing for three years fighting to get out of Q1, fighting at the starts, pushing the car in Hungary up the hill in Q1 to get another run, I tried to race with a broken rib in Bahrain.”

“When I read that I thought people are not concentrating on the real things happening,” he added.
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3577 ... -not-true/

Alonso: Me or Honda ultimatum 'not true'

Fernando Alonso has slammed reports that he has given McLaren an ultimatum of choosing between him and engine partner Honda for the 2018 campaign.

Alonso is in the final season of a three-year deal with McLaren, which remains a long way off the pace with Honda's unreliable and uncompetitive power unit.

Earlier this week, reports surfaced that Alonso had told McLaren to pick either his services and another engine supplier or continue with Honda for 2018.

However, speaking ahead of the Italian Grand Prix, the Spaniard made clear that he has made no such statement, and reiterated his desire to see McLaren back on top.

"Absolutely not true," said Alonso, when asked about the reports.

"I have absolutely not decided, and more than anything I'm not bigger than a team, I am not… we are 1,000 people in McLaren-Honda working for the championship.

"We know that things are not going in the right direction, we are not competitive enough after three years, we all want to change that situation, me as one of the 1000 people there.

"We are McLaren, we all want the same thing: to be competitive."

Alonso added that he is edging closer to a decision over his future.

"I'm getting there, it's the 31st of August," he joked.

"There's nothing really new on that, I will start sitting down with the team especially, what are the prospects for the future, the expectations for next year.

"We do have now some ingredients to be champions, the team did improve a lot in the last three years from when I arrived here.

"I think we have the talent in the team, we have the facilities, we have everything, we just miss to be [being] more competitive, which is the most important thing.

"We will see what the numbers are saying for next year and after that try to make a decision."
Since it seems people have no problem writing a whole handbook called the 'biography why i hate alonso and he can't do nothing good' and subsequentially reading it,
i will assume they won't be as hypocritic to skip reading facts by the man himself on the actual matter, instead of armchair clicbait fantasy stories with no substance,
hence i will assume people here will take the effort to read the above.

also

Honda settles on 'Spec 3.7' for FP1 test
Last edited by Manoah2u on 01 Sep 2017, 23:19, edited 1 time in total.
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while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Joseki
Joseki
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Wazari wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 23:38
Hmmm.............current spec PU had very limited running in January on the dyno so................

Loss of sponsorship depending on what PU a team runs? Highly doubtful. Although I know very little about sponsorship deals, my daughter is directly involved with putting together a sponsorship deals for her company that is currently the main sponsor for one of Penske's Indycars. All they care about is where is their logo going to be placed, how large and how many races will the logo be on the car. As far as senior staff leaving, what kind of senior staff, engineers?, management? To me that does not make any sense. If I was the team principal and someone on my staff says I'm leaving if the team continues with so and so PU, I'd tell them, "Don't let the door hit ya, where the good Lord split ya......... 8)
Could Fernando have heard whispers about reliability problems and lack of power on dyno in the month of January (and, at the same time, whispers about McLaren being behind schedule too)? If the answer is yes I believe my source.

Regarding the senior staff I'm talking about technical staff, people at Woking are starting to feel hampered by the engine and their work can't shine, so they may search other places to work in the UK.

For the sponsorships is about the degree of competitiveness of the package. It's quite obvious that Mercedes have better sponsors than Sauber.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Wazari wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 07:40
Zynerji wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 03:53

Couldn't they get Xtrac, or ANY team to build their design? I mean, they can adapt an entire chassis to a new engine, I somehow doubt the gearbox alone was the single point failure in this arrangement...
Sure....but time and money being limiting factors. These gearboxes are not as simple as your basic transmission in a road car. To build a gearbox from scratch to match a PU to your chassis and have enough units to last a season for two cars is probably a 17 to 22 million USD investment. McLaren's gearbox cost about 650,000 USD each not including the design work.
I appreciate your non-speculative numbers.

CBeck113
CBeck113
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Joined: 17 Feb 2013, 19:43

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Andres125sx wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 08:53
CBeck113 wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 08:05

This is a very important point which can also help keep Alonso where he is. They (Honda) are bending over backwards to appease to him ... like their development processes I'm not so sure this is the correct approach, unless they firmly believe that the bad publicity is necessary to pressure Honda's senior management into making the necessary changes (but they are the ones with the bank account :roll: ).
Any source for the bolded part or just as assumption?
A portion of common sense and experience in complaint management, like the stint in Indy. They want to keep him happy, he represents a constant for their performance, and we have all seen what change has been doing..they still haven't adapted
Andres125sx wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 08:53
I think it´s exactly the opposite, Honda do things their way, wich is slowly learning by their own experience instead of relying on external people with experience. And that´s the reason for Alonso´s rants. If McLaren would disagree with Alonso, they would have stopped him a long time ago. In my eyes McLaren is using Alonso character to put some pressure on Honda on a desperate attempt to push the japaneese into a faster developing process.
That's basically what I said in the next sentence - there's definitely a reason for allowing the complaints to be televised, and it is to force change.
Andres125sx wrote:
01 Sep 2017, 08:53
Because sincerely, when people say things like "Alonso is just an employee who shouldn´t complain about the team", they don´t realice the team is McLaren, not Honda, and McLaren is as desperate with Honda as Alonso himself
McLaren wants to win, and are convinced that everything else is capable of doing so, which I do not believe. Case point - why did they run so much downforce in Spa? Most likely because their tire degregation would have been too high if they had less wing, which is the result of the diffusor (actually the entire floor of the car) not being effective enough. Mercedes has enough power to do something like this, McLaren doesn't, so why bother? Oh right, to exagerate the power disadvantage they have when compared to the other teams. As I write this I am beginning to wonder if this is all being staged from McLaren, and Alonso is only the pawn... :idea:
“Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!” Monty Python and the Holy Grail

ZakB
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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According to Motorsport Total Alonso will continue with McLaren even if they keep Honda.

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 90103.html

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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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I know it's just practice 2, so probably not representative of where they'll end up tomorrow, but Alonso set his best time without a tow, and was faster than the other midfielders. Will be interesting to see the long run pace, if it's in the mid to low 26's they could actually accomplish the impossible around here(points). IF they do, it'll bode well for the next race in Singapore, with a lot of stop start, low speed corners and not long straights the next race could better the gap they had in Hungary.
Saishū kōnā

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HPD
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Yamamoto comes to Monza today or tomorrow. There is a meeting between Honda, Mclaren and Alonso to decide the future. Toro Rosso set the deadline until this weekend waiting for Honda.
Honda says it will only go to Toro Rosso if it has a long-term contract including Red Bull.
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Sayeman
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Mclaren not doing that bad, although it's only friday. Heard nothing about the 3.7 spec PU trialed today..was it any better?
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