2017 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 1-3 September

[Schuttelberg]

No different from Vettel then. I assume you dislike him too?

The fans booed Rosberg because of his actions ON TRACK. Pure and simple.
Hamilton did NOTHING to generate that reaction yesterday.

First time some "fans" booed Rosberg was after Spa 2014. I have seen many times actions like the one we saw on that race and never the fans started to boo a driver for that. It was the hysteric reaction of some(ehem British) media and fans who made that fight much worse than it really was.

I agree with the fact that Hamilton did not deserve to be booed. In fact, as I have said I dont like when people boo another drivers, its a total lack of respect. F1 used to be much better than this.

I won't boo myself, but I honestly find this pure hate against booing very trivial. I think Formula 1 already is very PR'd and we don't need more of it. If a crowd wants to express themselves, let them. Who the hell is anyone to judge right or wrong? They don't have any right to touch or harm anyone or throw stuff at them but voicing opinion is fine. I'm a Vettel fan and his arse was booed everywhere he went in 2013 and for some reason it became an issue. Why?

I absolutely loved the podium yesterday. You could just sense the tension and feel the pulse of the crowd. That's what SPORT is about!

[Schuttelberg]

BTW - I just wanted to say, I am very impressed by Sebastian Vettel. Not by his race performance, but the way he conducted himself on the podium and post-race interviews. He knew they were lucky to even be on the podium today and yet somehow he managed to rally the fans (Tifosi) behind him and I feel spark energy within his own team for the coming races. This is precisely what Ferrari (any team needs) needs.

Phil, yesterday you or I could have been on the podium and we would have been the toast of Italy. Just as long as we were dressed in red.

I found nothing special that Vettel did all weekend. I agree with you on the energy front. He sounded pumped in the PC. I also saw the 2015 and 2016 podium ceremonies and yesterday was the first time Vettel got such a resoundingly amazing reaction. The tifosi are warming to him perhaps!

[Spoutnik]

Hi guys,

What's your prediction of which of the remaining tracks is a Merc, and which a Ferrari,... or even a RB track?

- Singapore
- Malaysia
- Japan
- US
- Mexico
- Brasil
- Abu Dhabi

Idk why but I think Ricciardo will win in Singapore and the Merc will not be so far off the pace : damage limitation (3 & 4 Ham / Bot)

In Malaysia, Mercedes even if they could face tire wear issue but with the event now taking place in Septembre it's colder in Malaysia (I can tell you I just come back from there)

Japan : 50-50

US : Mercedes always OP on this track

Mexico : Merc will snatch the pole probably, but Ferrari could be faster so I expect a close battle like at Spa

Brazil : If it's rainy : Hamilton. If it's not rainy I think Hamilton will snatch the pole also, so difficult to overtake on this track, despite evident tires issues Mercedes could face in race

Abu Dhabi : 50-50 despite the fresher condition throughout the race and the qualy suits more to the Merc.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Watching mini sector comparisons of various circuits between the Merc and Ferrari, with respect to approaching and exiting the slow corners (on almost all circuits, except Barcelona; even in Silverstone!), one can see a trend where Ferrari breaks late and exits the corner faster than Mercedes. This is specific to slower corners and that is where Ferrari is standing out with good late braking performance and acceleration. These are going to be characteristics of Singapore and there is every reason why the Ferrari should be outperforming Mercedes.

What we don't know, is what upgrades either team would be bringing to Singapore after their work that they did in Hungary with the In-Season testing. Specific to Mercedes, I don't expect any visible upgrades as the slow corner performance has more to do with Mechanical grip. Singapore is again going to be Ultra-Soft and that was the tyre that Mercedes generally struggles. So, in my opinion, all the issues for Mercedes are related to Mechanical grip, including working the Ultra-Soft through slower corners where they have been unable to maintain the temperatures like Ferrari has been.

If Mercedes surprises in Singapore, it would then be hard to imagine how Ferrari can come back for the rest of the season. But, odds are in favor of Ferrari for Singapore. If they shine in Singapore, they can shine through Brazil and Abu Dhabi too.

I am fully expecting one of the Red Bulls to be a pain in the arse for either Ferrari or Mercedes in Singapore.

[Restomaniac]

Personally, I wouldn't bet against Ferrari and Vettel taking it. Mercedes seems more vulnerable on tracks that doesn't suit them than the other way around. I think Ferrari is more consistent and has been so far.

Look at it this way: Hamilton has 2 more wins than Vettel (6 vs 4), but they are virtually tied in points (3 points in Hamiltons favor). One would think given he has two more victories to his name, he'd be more ahead than he is. This shows the strength of the Ferrari in performing on tracks where the Mercedes was quicker.

When the Mercedes works, it's brilliant, but when it doesn't, they might face a puzzling performance that might be quite damaging to the WDC.

Very fair appraisal.
I can't however look past the 1.2l to 0.9l situation. If Merc have started running to 0.9l already then what happens when Ferrari are forced to on the new ICE?

[Restomaniac]

No different from Vettel then. I assume you dislike him too?

The fans booed Rosberg because of his actions ON TRACK. Pure and simple.
Hamilton did NOTHING to generate that reaction yesterday.

First time some "fans" booed Rosberg was after Spa 2014. I have seen many times actions like the one we saw on that race and never the fans started to boo a driver for that. It was the hysteric reaction of some(ehem British) media and fans who made that fight much worse than it really was.

I agree with the fact that Hamilton did not deserve to be booed. In fact, as I have said I dont like when people boo another drivers, its a total lack of respect. F1 used to be much better than this.

I won't boo myself, but I honestly find this pure hate against booing very trivial. I think Formula 1 already is very PR'd and we don't need more of it. If a crowd wants to express themselves, let them. Who the hell is anyone to judge right or wrong? They don't have any right to touch or harm anyone or throw stuff at them but voicing opinion is fine. I'm a Vettel fan and his arse was booed everywhere he went in 2013 and for some reason it became an issue. Why?

I absolutely loved the podium yesterday. You could just sense the tension and feel the pulse of the crowd. That's what SPORT is about!

What opinion is that then? Booing because their guy lost? That's call sour grapes. How very grown up of them.
Funny you should bring up Vettel in 2013. Was that the year he was acting like a petulant child by being a full on tool such as Multi 21?

[marvin78]

Yeah there are people who just don't reflect and think every time. That happens to everyone once in a time. I don't get why they boo but I don't care. Not my problem. In reallity nothing happend really.

[AshSIreland]

I want to put it into a spreadsheet when I get the chance between the work I'm supposed to be doing but working it through in my mind I have:

- if all goes how I would expect, Ham wins by 16 points
- if Vettel manages 2nd at the strongest Merc tracks & Kimi gets 2nd in what I see as Ferrari tracks (Sing + AD) then Ham wins by Six points

So all being what I'd call 'normal', Ham wins either way, in my mind. The X factor is whether Ham has the same kind of quali struggles in the low speed high downforce package as he did in Monaco + to a slightly lesser extent Hungary.

As you say, what if an RB gets ahead? What if Bottas and the RBs are ahead on the grid in Singapore?

To me, it kinda needs that kind of thing and/or other unforeseen circumstances for Merc - with zero issues or grid penalties for Vettel - for Ferrari to win the WDC. I personally think it's unlikely that a new PU will bridge the gap we've seen on low downforce unless allied to a much more effective low df package, but this is also based around current relative strengths and weaknesses (for all we know Merc could be stronger in Sing or Ferrari's Spa compromise with a new PU could be the fastest package in Suzuka).

Like I say, I'll try and formulate thoughts into something a bit more illustrative later.

I'd like to know what sorts of variables are in your spreadsheet? For me, I don't have a good source of whether a track is high or low downforce, as there are some compromise tracks, that have long straights but also significant twisty, mid-speed corners (e.g., China)

[Gothrek]

I have never noticed that...
He talks with a normal British accent, if you had a phone conversation with him you would not think he was dumb, secondly how many Brits are there in Belgian clubs,how many dudes in Belgian clubs walk around with millions worth of jewelry? (Maybe you have been huffing to much race fuel or something?)

People tend to not like dominant drivers very much, i think that's the issue.(Unless he's in "your team" obviously.)

And saying that the Merc engine was better than the Ferrari engine in Monza was bound to get a response.(He was speaking the truth, but still.)

I didn't mean the accent. I literally mean what he says. (you got guys in the UK with different accents in clubs? ), I also said he looks like that type of half brain people that you find in any club. I didn't mean he is one of them, or that he has half a brain...
He looks the type, and it is a type that is general doesn't win you any favors when it comes to people perceiving you.
Anybody forgetting "Must be because I am black" and refusing to take his hat of for the one minute silence (because he dyed is hair blond and was waiting for a big "reveal" of his hair?).

[djos]

He should learn from daniel. Daniel only is on edge when its needed.
Max is driving balls to the wall when he doesnt have to.
He needs to save the 100% for the top vars like ferrari and mercedes.
Daniel may seem much slower because he is more cautious. But he waits tikl the race takes shape before he starts picking off cars one by one.
I want to see max try and make it to at least half way before he meets in an accident or loses and engine.

I completely agree, Dan has matured into an amazing racer, he's absolutely on par with the very best in F1 imo as his race craft is just sensational. It's one thing to drive from 16th to 4th in the fastest car, but to do it in the 3rd fastest car is really special. He absolutely capitalises on every chance he gets and that's why he lands himself on the podium so often.

[lebesset]

Personally, I wouldn't bet against Ferrari and Vettel taking it. Mercedes seems more vulnerable on tracks that doesn't suit them than the other way around. I think Ferrari is more consistent and has been so far.

Look at it this way: Hamilton has 2 more wins than Vettel (6 vs 4), but they are virtually tied in points (3 points in Hamiltons favor). One would think given he has two more victories to his name, he'd be more ahead than he is. This shows the strength of the Ferrari in performing on tracks where the Mercedes was quicker.

When the Mercedes works, it's brilliant, but when it doesn't, they might face a puzzling performance that might be quite damaging to the WDC.

not so
how many head restraint problems and gearbox penalties has vettel had ?

[Vanja #66]

How many tyre blow-ups and front wing run-overs Lewis had?

[Juzh]

How many tyre blow-ups and front wing run-overs Lewis had?

And safety car miss-timings (china).

[Juzh]

It's one thing to drive from 16th to 4th in the fastest car, but to do it in the 3rd fastest car is really special.

Red bull was probably joint 2nd fastest in race trim in monza, IF not ahead of ferrari. They had a good second in hand over the genuine 4th best car (williams probably this race), so 16th to 4th is certainly not completely out of this world.

Ferrari had literally no straight line speed on this track, even less so than usual. I'd say they were pretty luck verstappen managed to nuke his race once again and that ricciardo simply started way back.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Vettel's pace was not a true representation of Ferrari's pace at Monza. It was clear as soon as Merc were out of touch Ferrari went in to preservation mode. This was quite obvious when a few laps before the end Vettel suddenly started going over a second a lap quicker to keep Ricciardo at bay.