Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

[TAG]

Porsche doesn't have a long history in F1, certainly their attempts at a V12 in the early 90s were laughable but then again Porsche was never known for making V12 engines... but not long before that? Before the icon that was McLaren Honda, there was McLaren with their TAG branded engines, between 1983 and 1988 and they didn't do half bad earning two constructors and three driver's championships.

Now the new regulations for 2021 engines are being discussed and once again the Porsche name is being thrown around, Porsche's name not Audi like was thrown around in 2011 leading up to the current regulations.

WEC has been effectively disappointing with the lack of competition. It is just as costly as F1 from an P1 standpoint yet doesn't have nearly the global coverage as F1. Then there's the fact that Ross Brawn is making the rounds sounding off on a "middle ground" solution that would be still somewhat technical but more importantly LOUDER to appease the fans, smells to me of our next standard PU being something along the lines of a normally aspirated V8, with hybrid assistance, you know, kind of like the Porsche 918. It wouldn't take too stout of a limb to climb onto to see that writing on the wall.

Honda's failure at joining clearly IMO has been the reason for re-evaluating the entirety of the current spec. It would be crazy for a new manufacturer to jump in now given Honda's struggles. Could this be for real? I've been burned before, so I'll proceed with cautious optimism.

[skoop]

I really hope they'll join the sport either as full works team or engine supplier.
Like you said the budget is very similar, but the global coverage is way bigger.
Liberty are doing a real good job until now, in my opinion. There seems to be some progress and their "long term not knee jerk action" attitude seem to get the teams to finally accepting change.

[bdr529]

It would great to see Porsche or even Audi for the matter enter F1, but I wouldn't waste any time on it
now if F1 manages to land the white whale, then you can get excited

TAG branded engines, between 1983 and 1988

by the way It was 83 to 87

[OneAlex]

I would love to see Porsche enter as a team in their own right. Yes Audi/VW are the bigger brands, but Porsche would be the sexiest of the VW group (we don't need Lambo, Ferrari and Toro Rosso covers Italian flair).

now if F1 manages to land the white whale, then you can get excited

... Moby Dick?

[TAG]

It would great to see Porsche or even Audi for the matter enter F1, but I wouldn't waste any time on it
now if F1 manages to land the white whale, then you can get excited

TAG branded engines, between 1983 and 1988

by the way It was 83 to 87

you're right, 87. WEC at least at the pointy end is dying, that's the big difference between now and the previous time around. Audi wouldn't get back in, Porsche has proven that it's only competing with itself there and if it's going to get into F1 this might be the ground floor. Brawn is very willing to work with everyone at the moment.

[bdr529]

I would love to see Porsche enter as a team in their own right. Yes Audi/VW are the bigger brands, but Porsche would be the sexiest of the VW group (we don't need Lambo, Ferrari and Toro Rosso covers Italian flair).

now if F1 manages to land the white whale, then you can get excited

... Moby Dick?

I was going to say Captain Ahab, but I didn't think any would catch that reference.
As for the "sexiest" of the VW properties, that belongs to the work a day Skoda

[TAG]

in a sport of deny everything, "not denying it" I'll take that as a great reason to be cautiously optimistic.

Porsche not denying future F1 foray

Porsche is not denying that a "high efficiency engine" already under development could become the basis of a F1 project.

The German sports car maker shocked the world of motor sport recently by announcing that it is leaving the top Le Mans category LMP1.

However, Porsche's entire Le Mans team is being kept together, ramping up speculation that after a move into Formula E, the next step could be F1.

"We need all of these (LMP1) people in the future," Porsche's research and development chief Michael Steiner told Auto Motor und Sport.

"The great team we built for LMP1 is highly motivated and represents an enormous wealth of knowledge," he explained. "So it is a good idea to have a concrete plan for the engineers, mechanics and even for the drivers."

Exactly what the whole LMP1 team will be doing, however, is unclear, and only adds to the rumours that the next step for Porsche is a F1 engine for the post-2020 rules.

"Like other manufacturers, we at the invitation of the FIA are participating in the discussions about the future formula one powertrain," Steiner admitted.

"The team at Weissach is not working on an F1 engine at the moment, but it is working on a high-efficiency engine at the concept level -- without a decision about what we are doing with this engine," he said.

[TAG]

Porsche to Formula 1 with Williams - it makes sense

Motorsportweek - Porsche will quit the FIA World Endurance Championship's LMP1 class at the end of this season, but the signs are that the ultimate goal is not to rely only on Formula E and that Porsche's next stop will be an F1 deal.

The company already has all the technology required to create a current F1 engine and while it is unlikely to win anything before the new F1 rules come into place in 2021, there is a very obvious strategy which it could take to be in a great position for the next F1 era.

The word in Budapest before the summer break was that Porsche will come to F1 - perhaps with other VW brands following as well - and that the obvious deal would be to go into partnership with an established team, in order to avoid having to invest in expensive chassis technology and infrastructure.

While it is assumed by most people that this would involve a deal with Red Bull Racing, it is much more likely that Porsche will go to a team which is a little bit more manufacturer-friendly. McLaren has its own agenda with engines while Sauber and Toro Rosso are in the wrong places. Haas is a Ferrari satellite. Force India might be a possible partner, but while it has a great group of engineers it needs a huge amount of capital investment..

All of this means that the best available choice is clearly Williams F1, not only because the team has a great heritage and decent facilities, but also because it needs a manufacturer to get it back to winning, which a customer Mercedes engine deal will not do.

There are also other elements that make Williams the obvious choice, not least the fact that it is sponsored by Porsche's traditional motorsport partner Martini & Rossi and the various brands fit very neatly together. The Martini Porsche relationship goes back nearly 50 years and is a brand that is instantly recognised outside the confines of F1.

Williams is also a company that is listed on the stock exchange in Germany, which means that the potential for a full takeover of the Williams group exists, if the family wants to sell out to Porsche at some point in the future. This need not all happen tomorrow, but there is a great deal of long term logic in such a relationship.

As they say, watch this space!

[DiogoBrand]

Why the hell would they go for Williams? Red Bull is a top team that any engine manufacturer would want as a partner, McLaren wouldn't be too far behind if their deal with Honda doesn't sort itself out, and even Force India is consistently beating Williams the past few seasons.

[Manoah2u]

Why the hell would they go for Williams? Red Bull is a top team that any engine manufacturer would want as a partner, McLaren wouldn't be too far behind if their deal with Honda doesn't sort itself out, and even Force India is consistently beating Williams the past few seasons.

RedBull burned Renault to the ground and the relationship went so sour that RB is driving Renault engines with a Tag Heuer tag on it. Red Bull also only has one interest; RedBull. Logical, to some extent, but they dont see a bigger picture because to them , there isnt as they're RedBull. There is also the issue that RB supposedly got on the wrong side of Renault with how they handled Infinity on the car like they did. They essentially shifted the attention for Renault towards Infinity. I dont know how deep that goes, but fact is that there has been words from Renault that they didn't particularly 'enjoy' that one. Who can blame them, they were responsible for giving RB a WDC and WCC winning engine, and then got pulled one when RB painted their cars purple and prominently put Infinity everywhere and Renault seemed almost like giving them the treatment as if they were Dacia [another Renualt brand funny enough].

RedBull is about RedBull.

They're also in game with Aston Martin, and there is a good possibility they'll go that route. RedBull Aston Martin F1 team. But RedBull above all will take all credit and not Porsche.

In comparison, Williams has a long history of giving credit due to where it is. Being much more polite and positive and not burning or biting the 'hand that feeds you' (engine wise), have repositioned themselves, have Stroll giving loaaaads of money, and to get back to winning, only need a personal engine supplier. as mentioned above, Porsche - Martini - Williams go hand in hand. And it fits the team perfectly.

There's also lots of Mercedes 'knowledge' there, and smart brains.
You could argue Verstappen and Ricciardo are better drivers than Massa and Stroll, but that is not an end all.

Martini Williams F1 Team powered by Porsche. absolutely Perfect imho.
RedBull Aston Martin F1 Team is as fitting to RedBull as Porsche is to Williams.

especially looking at brand recognition for both Porsche as Martini AS Williams.
brand recognition for Redbull - Porsche is a much harder level.

[DiogoBrand]

I don't wanna sound harsh here, but from my point of view the only thing that Williams still got going for them is their history. They haven't been able to compete for a WC for over a decade now. They capitalized on their partnership with Mercedes on 2014 to go from backmarker to 3rd on WCC, but from them on all they did was mantain things going with nothing indicating a rise over 4th/5th, with even FI surpassing them and mantaining that position for the last two seasons

About Red Bull: Renault engines were enough to win a WC with the frozen V8 formula, where everyone were "equal", after that it's no surprise to see Red Bull frustrated when they had one of the best cars on the grid with no horses to propel them.

I seriously think that investing a new engine on Williams is a waste, but each to their point of view.

[TAG]

I don't wanna sound harsh here, but from my point of view the only thing that Williams still got going for them is their history. They haven't been able to compete for a WC for over a decade now.

If a manufacturer like Porsche comes in, they won't be suppliying just the PU. There's a vast difference between Renault and what they bring, to what Porsche would. I'm speaking in terms of beyond the mere PU supply.

[DiogoBrand]

Well. If they'd be willing to basically run the team, then they might go for Williams. If you look at it, Mercedes has all the money from Mercedes-Benz, Ferrari has all funding from Fiat, Red Bull Racing from Red Bull, and McLaren has all the funding from their technology group plus the arab billionaires that own it.
Williams AFAIK, has their own business outside F1, but not to the same level as McLaren, plus their sponsorships, plus the money from Stroll senior paying for Lance to play race driver, but to run a World Champion team I think they still lack a lot. So if Porsche would be willing to basically run the team, they might go for Williams.

Also, the one reason I think they might go for Williams is expectations. If they were to become a flop like Honda, at least the blow wouldn't be as big as ruining McLaren's big program, and if they did build a top class PU they'd soon have all privateer teams on their door asking to buy engines to contest for the championship.

[TAG]

It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas.

Lutz Meschke, Deputy Chairman of the Executive Board and Member of the Board for Finances and IT, met with Ross Brawn and the sport's other bosses at the Italian Grand Prix.

Asked if the current plans for a twin-turbo V6 with less technology could attract Porsche to F1 he said: "Absolutely. We have to cut costs in F1, and it's a good way to reach this target."

Meschke also confirmed that "discussions are around being a supplier," and thus there are no plans to form a works team.

Among the obvious possible partners are Williams, which enjoyed a technical relationship with Porsche before selling its Hybrid Power division, and Red Bull, which has extensive connections with the VW Group.

Full Article

[The_table]

Could we have too many suppliers and not enough teams if this happens? (ie: two suppliers that each supply only one team.)
(I'd like more teams to enter F1 and follow the haas formula tbh, would be better for young drivers because they end up in the midfield where they can actually do something.)