2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[FrukostScones]

I hope Honda doesnt give up and wont allow a McLaren switch to Renault.
Possible Porsche entry only making things worse... RB window closing.
What did mclaren expect after 2016 to 2017 complete architecture change made in like 10 month???
I think we won't see Wazari spec 4 and Honda will withdraw end of 2017 because mcLaren will terminate contract no matter what.

[ZakB]

That´s what your crystal ball said?

Or you´ve some insights from Honda, have seen the PU, the engineers, etc. and know their work is useless and they will never solve their problems, not in this, next or 2019 seasons?


Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes, all the dominant teams in past decade/s, actually needed 3-4 seasons before succeding. Assuming they won´t succed because they didn´t in 3th season, when they were severly restricted by token in two thirds of that period is so absurd... it´s pure fanboyism... "I don´t like them, I´m bored, get rid of them"

If Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes needed 3-4 seasons to succed without restrictions, I think 4-5 seasons is the least we should concede to McHonda.

But you need some perspective to be that patient

We haven't seen anyone getting on the level of Mercedes, but you expect that Honda will create something that is better than them in three years time? You're calling others a fanboy, but I would call you delusional.

Nope, I´m not expecting that, far from that, I never said that. But they don´t need to be better or match Mercedes to be a better option than a Renault PU as a customer team. I´d prefer a Honda PU with works team status at similar level of perfomance to Renault, than a Renault PU as another customer at the same time to RBR

Do you think matching Renault perfomance and reliability is delusional?

At this point, yes. I would prefer a works deal as well, don't get me wrong, but it has been three years and I don't see any major progress. There is still no power, efficiency is terrible, reliability is extremely bad (two MGU-K failures in 24 hours, come on), budget is less than the competition, located in the wrong place, no leadership, empty promises. I don't see one reason why McLaren should continue with Honda. Like I said before, the successful period end 80's was a exception, Honda failed badly in every other era.

The good news is that McLaren seems to get their aero department back on the track and the rate of development is simply incredible. People shouldn't underestimate McLaren, which is also the reason why Ferrari and Mercedes weren't willing to provide them with engines.

"I'm happy, I'm with the best team of my career," said Alonso.

"The level of knowledge and detail that I found here is probably the best.

"The analysis, the work in the factory, the philosophy of designing the car is completely different to what I was used to.

"The driver input and the driver implications are much greater here so we're just missing a competitive car.

"For organisation and things like that, the team is just amazing."

[McMika98]

Looks like they will announce on Thursday

https://tr.motorsport.com/f1/news/minar ... di-949537/

While waiting for chrome to translate, the headline read Minardi Mclaren. Hmm desparate times, it was Spyker Mclaren during launch.

[Sayeman]

We haven't seen anyone getting on the level of Mercedes, but you expect that Honda will create something that is better than them in three years time? You're calling others a fanboy, but I would call you delusional.

Nope, I´m not expecting that, far from that, I never said that. But they don´t need to be better or match Mercedes to be a better option than a Renault PU as a customer team. I´d prefer a Honda PU with works team status at similar level of perfomance to Renault, than a Renault PU as another customer at the same time to RBR

Do you think matching Renault perfomance and reliability is delusional?

At this point, yes. I would prefer a works deal as well, don't get me wrong, but it has been three years and I don't see any major progress. There is still no power, efficiency is terrible, reliability is extremely bad (two MGU-K failures in 24 hours, come on), budget is less than the competition, located in the wrong place, no leadership, empty promises. I don't see one reason why McLaren should continue with Honda. Like I said before, the successful period end 80's was a exception, Honda failed badly in every other era.

The good news is that McLaren seems to get their aero department back on the track and the rate of development is simply incredible. People shouldn't underestimate McLaren, which is also the reason why Ferrari and Mercedes weren't willing to provide them with engines.

"I'm happy, I'm with the best team of my career," said Alonso.

"The level of knowledge and detail that I found here is probably the best.

"The analysis, the work in the factory, the philosophy of designing the car is completely different to what I was used to.

"The driver input and the driver implications are much greater here so we're just missing a competitive car.

"For organisation and things like that, the team is just amazing."

Honda's V10 was monster.

[Writinglife]

From a purely business sense, it would make sense for McLaren to split from Honda and bring Renault in, especially if they can barter parallel development with Renault F1 and RBR. Anything less, and it's not worth it. McLaren has the clout to do it, but that might spur RBR into the veto, wanting first crack at developed systems.

From a purely fan sense however, I feel very invested in McLaren-Honda and, as insane as it sounds, I want them to work it out and move forward. I think Honda will need to do something spectacular though, along the lines of increasing their financial commitment to the team and offering "penalty payments" for each engine that goes pop.


2018, the fan wants McLaren-Honda to be successful (Mid-table, regular points finishing would be fine), but the pragmatist says it will be Renault.

I for one am not putting any money on this.

[NL_Fer]

Just thinking, maybe Redbull is much clever. They don't want the (resonating) McLaren gearbox, but want their own custom design dor Torro Rosso. When Honda produces a killer engine, they can just bolt on the complete assembly on their RBR and go. And they are trying to make Honda pay for the development.

[ZakB]

From a purely business sense, it would make sense for McLaren to split from Honda and bring Renault in, especially if they can barter parallel development with Renault F1 and RBR. Anything less, and it's not worth it. McLaren has the clout to do it, but that might spur RBR into the veto, wanting first crack at developed systems.

From a purely fan sense however, I feel very invested in McLaren-Honda and, as insane as it sounds, I want them to work it out and move forward. I think Honda will need to do something spectacular though, along the lines of increasing their financial commitment to the team and offering "penalty payments" for each engine that goes pop.


2018, the fan wants McLaren-Honda to be successful (Mid-table, regular points finishing would be fine), but the pragmatist says it will be Renault.

I for one am not putting any money on this.

Everyone hoped that things would have worked out, but some people in here seem to forget that this is actually a sport. McLaren no longer cares about penalty payments or whatever, they just want to perform. They no longer want to fight with Force India, Williams or Haas. I'm a McLaren fan and find it amazing that people would accept another crap year. McLaren knows exactly what it's capable of and what Honda has promised and delivered. The interview with Boullier said it all really, they haven't hit a single target.

[loner]

the Stuttgart manufacturer is seriously considering a return to Formula 1 as an engine supplier under the proposed 2021 regulations.
what a nicely timed input from Porsche

[bigblue]

As a compromise, how about one more year with Honda, where Honda agree to a softer exit (some level of financial support) at the end of the year if "reasonable" progress is not made ? (not sure how reasonable is defined here !).

On one hand, it seems to be over-generous from a Honda perspective - if the contract says they should keep going, they should, else its a breach of contract (Honda have been supporting McLaren financially through difficult times, the partnership should be honoured as it often takes multiple years for things to come good).

On the other hand, I guess it doesn't help anyway, those who want the partnership to dissolve see absolutely no reason to carry on, as the reason for leaving is that there is no confidence anything will improve (McLaren see little or no progress, and the level of performance is such that the team's existence as a (now potential) top-level team is actually under threat, being fourth best team (at best ?) is sufficient as a stop-gap for a couple of years).

Funnily enough I see Alonso as less important now, despite him being (in my opinion) the best driver on the grid. What's the point when neither alternative is going to be championship-winning level next year. Cut the cost and disharmony ?

A big mess overall.

[ZakB]

the Stuttgart manufacturer is seriously considering a return to Formula 1 as an engine supplier under the proposed 2021 regulations.
what a nicely timed input from Porsche

I don't think McLaren will use Porsche engines, times have changed and McLaren are selling more cars than ever.

[ollandos]

off the record rumors renault have 60hp more of honda and 30-40 less from mercedes ....right now ...

[sasa.nikolic]

"Like I said before, the successful period end 80's was a exception, Honda failed badly in every other era."

Although most of the time you do make sense, now you don't. They weren't always sucessful, but they were most of the time. In any category they tried. Google a bit moto racing. Which company has most titles in MotoGP/500cc class? In Moto2/250cc? In Moto3/125cc?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... _champions

Which engine is dominant in Indycar atm? Is this the only year they are good there?
Can you say for sure they wouldn't get title in 2009 if they didn't leave?

I admit, I am Honda fan (but not fanboy, big difference) They did have big mess ups (one happening right now) but most of the series they were competing in they did great ... eventually. This is what still gives me and other fans optimism that they will sort this .... if not forced out before that.

"I'm happy, I'm with the best team of my career," said Alonso."

As I already said I think Alo is one of the best or maybe the best driver today. I aldo do like Alo with all his outbursts and sunbathing, he is making F1 more colourful.
But isn't that the guy who said something like Ferrari is the best team he has ever been in and he is sure he ll drive there until end of his career?

[loner]

Possible Porsche entry only making things worse... RB window closing.
I think we won't see Wazari spec 4 and Honda will withdraw end of 2017 because mcLaren will terminate contract no matter what.

Williams here for the taking
if Honda have confidence in their project (which i believe they do or else why did they go Mercedes layout?!!)
take Williams and rise even with more resources its turning to be not cool any more for them
they are saying dare to do things other can't bla bla well prove it or leave in vain.

[Sayeman]

With simpler engine rules coming, Redbull should take this opportunity to get Honda. Their relationship with Renault is beyond repair and the only reason we are not hearing more public outburst from Redbull is because of the "no public shaming" contract they signed with Renault.

As for Alonso he says he wants to more "Loyal" to Mclaren, but of course Mclaren has to be more "Loyal" to him first.

[Mad]

When Honda stipulated for Alonso to be signed by Mclaren, liitle did they know it would be Alonso who would be a major player in forcing them out of F1...Ahh the irony..Sad but kinda funny.
All those end of the year "Thank you" programs for Alonso didnt do much good it seems.