Renault Sport Racing and McLaren Racing are pleased to announce they have agreed an engine supply partnership for the 2018, 2019 and 2020 seasons. The deal will see Renault Sport Racing supply McLaren with Formula 1 power units, while also establishing a close working relationship with McLaren’s engineers and technicians.
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This is a massive backward step for McLaren, it puts them into a direct fight with Red Bull on chassis vs chassis basis but comfortably behind Ferrari and Merc.
The Torro Rosso deal will mean Red Bull has an option to jump ship if/when Honda gets its act together either in this engine format or the next one. McLaren only has Renault from this point forward and have backed themselves into a box. I don't see how McLaren will ever be winners from this position after all they exist to win...
Ron will be proved right eventually but by Red Bull not McLaren.
That sums it up perfectly, McLaren may win a race with Renault if the conditions are right & luck is on their side, but they'll never be champions.
What is not to understand that they are making ready for 2021. The Honda deal was aimed at wining in '17 and championships in '18. Now they have try again from scratch. Maybe they are lucky, Renault will up their game and a little help from Ross Brawn to bring more balance of power.
Nothing is certain yet ... maybe Sainz to Renault is the cost of Renault leaving Toro Rosso, so that Honda can have their second team, seen as vital by Honda, FIA and even McLaren, the latter as they cannot get out of their Honda contract this year. McLaren reluctantly allow the Toro Rosso deal because it will help Honda performance, maybe with a cost of performance targets Honda must make next year, else there are release clauses.
OK, totally made-up, probably not even likely, but just floating an alternative scenario to point out the actual outcome is not yet known. Given the things McLaren have been saying, you'd be surprised to see them carry on with Honda, but maybe there's a very slim, say 10% chance. I think it all depends on the contract wording, and the mood at Honda HQ more than anything else.
Last edited by bigblue on 10 Sep 2017, 12:47, edited 1 time in total.
Nothing is certain yet ... maybe Sainz to Renault is the cost of Renault leaving Toro Rosso, so that Honda can have their second team, seen as vital by Honda / FIA and even McLaren, the latter as they cannot get out of their Honda contract this year. McLaren reluctantly allow the Toro Rosso deal because it will help Honda performance, maybe with a cost of performance targets Honda must make next year, else there are release clauses.
OK, totally made-up, probably not even likely, but just floating an alternative scenario to point out the actual outcome is not yet known. Given the things McLaren have been saying, you'd be surprised to see them carry on with Honda, but maybe there's a 10% chance. I think it all depends on the contract wording, and the mood at Honda HQ.
Sounds plausible. With reliability getting sorted this year, they will good amount data from 4 cars to improve power. 2019 could be a good year for Honda if they can fix these reliability gremlins.
Its pretty clear mclaren were runing more wing. in constrast redbull had a very skinny rear wing. for a place like monza running more wing will eat you in the straights, No wonder redbull did really well against all renault and even got managed to overtake a ferrari. redbull has the best efficient chassis, and next year mclaren chassis will get exposed by redbull. Cant put all blame on honda and mclaren to run heavy rear wing causing more drag especially in monza. mclaren all want to do is toot their horns and boast how quick they are in corners, they dont realise its how much running more wing will destroy straight line speed. http://adn.gpupdate.net/large/312760.jpg http://adn.gpupdate.net/large/312587.jpg http://adn.gpupdate.net/large/312742.jpg
Gary Anderson said the same thing in SPA, unfortunately he was labeled a "Mclaren Hater" for saying that. Mclaren is doing everything to make Honda look bad to get out of the contract. Part of me wants to see them running a Renault engine next year, so we can see how good their chassis really is, there have been a lot of boasting since 2015 about their hallowed chassis.
* Sainz to Renault at Malasia, Replacing Palmer
* Gasly to replace Sainz at Toro Rosso at Malasia
* Matsushita to do all but two FP1 sessions in Kvjiat car this year, replacing him in 2018
* Renault to supply McLaren in 2018
* Honda to supply Toro Rosso in 2018
* McLaren to supply Toro Rosso with a Gearbox supply in 2018
* Red Bull technology to supply McLaren with a Gearbox initially in 2018, maybe run one all year.
* ExonMobil to exclusively supply Honda with fuel from 2018, extending their ties with Red Bull
* BP/Castrol to exclusively supply Renault and McLaren (As they do at the moment) to give them a better combustion from the Renault Power Unit
*Red Bull-Honda in 2019 if all goes well in 2018.
* Toro Rosso-Honda in 2019 as a data gathering and development source.
* FOM would like to see a 3rd Honda powered team in 2019, and a additional Renault powered team in 2019 as well. (means 12 teams with each power unit manufacturer having 3 teams each)
Its been slightly more complex than has met the eye, but it all seems to be resolved. The financials are also complex, but ill leave it there, as my head hurts figuring all this out.
This is all organised by redbul agains t renault because 4 years of performance lack. The plan is surely to bring honda engine in the redbul reign with toro rosso and possibly let renault alone in the future. Maclaren could also stay one year more with Honda because in 2018 the engine development will be even quicker with 2 honda teams and Alonso may accept.
Sainz would have been the easiest part of this merry-go-round not the first part. Makes you wonder if it is just going to be TR with Honda engines and nothing more. Taking too long although no announcements by anyone tells you deal making is still happening.
Whatever happens, FIA's number 1 property will be to retain Honda. Mclaren and Alonso are minnows in the bigger scheme of things, only thing going for them is their rich F1 history, outside F1 pretty non-existent.
Honda would be foolish to accept Torro-Rosso contract unless there is some assurance from Redbull to take their engines in the future. They won't want to invest that amount of money to power a backmarking team without coverage.
Then again 90% of the wound is self-inflicted. Start of the season was terrible, everyone was expecting much more from them.
I think Mclaren will keep an option to get back to Honda if they become competitive. Redbull may be eyeing porsche works deal 2021 onward.
I personally don't subscribe to this 'championships are impossible with Renault' narrative; I'm sure Red Bull expects a power unit next year that will be close enough to let an exceptional chassis compete consistently for wins.
Oil burning clampdown will almost certainly mean the quali modes are less of a differentiator (the actions taken by Mercedes in recent weeks all but confirms they've been burning oil as fuel since 2014) and Renault have had some stagnation this year as a result of a complete concept overhaul. They should see more fruits from that new concept next year.
So whilst I don't think it'll be on terms with Mercedes and Ferrari, I think it can be close enough that a chassis advantage can bridge the gap - let's say 3 tenths. Not saying that *will* happen - nor that RB or McLaren have/will have better chassis than Mercedes or Ferrari - just that it's feasible and so taking a Renault engine is not an admission of defeat. Quite the contrary, I think it's a big step forward and puts the power back in the hands of the chassis builder.
This is all organised by redbul agains t renault because 4 years of performance lack. The plan is surely to bring honda engine in the redbul reign with toro rosso and possibly let renault alone in the future. Maclaren could also stay one year more with Honda because in 2018 the engine development will be even quicker with 2 honda teams and Alonso may accept.
McLaren won't stay, deal is done.
Based on lie in that article that "Renault PU enough for Alonso to stay". I highly speculate the rest of that article is poppy cock. Alonso has come and said publicly that he would stay even with Honda.
Seeing Exon/Mobil moving back to Honda makes me think back to one of my pre-season favourite topics: I wonder how much the fuel suppliers' merry-go-round affected the both Honda/Renault's development this year.
Can't have been good for continuity and neither company really made the expected progress.
Seeing Exon/Mobil moving back to Honda makes me think back to one of my pre-season favourite topics: I wonder how much the fuel suppliers' merry-go-round affected the both Honda/Renault's development this year.
Can't have been good for continuity and neither company really made the expected progress.
I can't help but think the same. As the loss of Total/Elf to Renault and the adoption of BP/Castrol must have lost some energy in the combustion chamber as well as having two crews operating, one for Honda and one for Renault/Toro Rosso as well. And the change in combustion chamber and ERS characteristics for Exxon Mobil going from Honda to Renault will play a part. Im sure their PR Bull will say the loss in power will be much less than expected, maybe 12hp in total to their blurb, but i do feel as if the power loss will be maybe 5 times that as their mix will be different in terms of how the hydrocarbons are extracted in the combustion chamber.
Its funny how Honda and Renault have been experiencing technical failures, as i remember someone from Petronas and corroborated by Shell that fuel in the V6T-H era would be used not only for extracting the peak amount of energy that they can, but also the fuel and lubricants would be used in some way to help cool the components in ways that the V8s could have never been.
