2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[hemichromis]

Why is Ferraris non-success not an Alonso non-success? If you let the BS of Alonso doing miracles aside, he had a very good car in 2 Ferrari seaons which clearly was able to win the WC. I can't see that Alonso was not part of losing those possible titles. He was part of the team wasn't he? Was he part of the team, when he won titles? He clearly was.

I know, every fan thinks, that his driver is by far the best and so on...I'm not a fan of anyone but is it really sad, if someone get's up to 40 Mio for his job? For whom is that really sad? Why do you feel for a guy, you don't even know?

I think that Alonso is an outstanding driver, by the way. But in history you can find tons of drivers who where just that and did not even take part in F1. Are you really sad for them all? That's sad for you.

I think it's only because someone winning a car that is not the best as the Ferrari was is very rare. Fernando did better than the car deserved. You are right though, the whole team is together win or lose and fernando could have found an extra point here and there, he wasn't perfect.
It is very hard to feel sorry for these guys when they earn more in a month than i will in a lifetime!

[dr_cooke]

Is this already "being official"?

http://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/gp- ... b4656.html

[DFX]

I know, every fan thinks, that his driver is by far the best and so on...I'm not a fan of anyone but is it really sad, if someone get's up to 40 Mio for his job? For whom is that really sad? Why do you feel for a guy, you don't even know?

I think it's only because someone winning a car that is not the best as the Ferrari was is very rare. Fernando did better than the car deserved. You are right though, the whole team is together win or lose and fernando could have found an extra point here and there, he wasn't perfect.
It is very hard to feel sorry for these guys when they earn more in a month than i will in a lifetime!

Put it this way, he overachieved in the given package, you can see that by his teamates point comparison and results throughout the seasons with Ferrari. Of course that this is his job, but it is one that not all drivers can achieve. The team part came short though, bad development through the championship and mainly poor strategy decisions again and again, like the infamous bad pit call in the season finale in 2010 (Imagine all the hardwork you gave to be thrown off like that, how disgusted one should feel).

In the end they, driver and team, win and loose together but one can argue that the team job was subpar.

[CBeck113]

Is this already "being official"?

http://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/gp- ... b4656.html

http://e00-marca.uecdn.es/assets/multim ... 696085.jpg

I guess it depends on who's hand is holding it...

[dr_cooke]

Is this already "being official"?

http://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/gp- ... b4656.html

http://e00-marca.uecdn.es/assets/multim ... 696085.jpg

I guess it depends on who's hand is holding it...

I don't know the guy...

[Manoah2u]

Why is Ferraris non-success not an Alonso non-success? If you let the BS of Alonso doing miracles aside, he had a very good car in 2 Ferrari seaons which clearly was able to win the WC. I can't see that Alonso was not part of losing those possible titles.

i understand your reasoning but i will bring in the not so insignificant matter of Schumacher.

Schumacher was a 7-time WDC. There really doesn't need to be any doubt whether he is one of the all time legends.

1998, 1999 he was beaten by Hakkinen. Was the Ferrari not a WC capable car? yes, it was. Not downgrading Hakkinen's capacity, but the Mclaren was a very good car, better than the Ferrari.

Was losing 2 titles then Schumacher's fault? is Schumacher less great because he got beaten by Hakkinnen?

1996: Beaten by hill by a single point. I don't regard Hill at all as a better driver than Schumacher. The Ferrari just wasn't up for the task enough, despite being a WC capable car. I think this is a good comparison to Alonso. He had to battle people with vastly superior material.

Also; In Senna's tragic year, Schumacher had a vastly greater car, hence why Senna's chances on the WDC were slimming down no matter what happened during the year (assuming he had not perished).

You win and lose as a team, sure. But fact is, the RedBull was just too big of a catch, just as the Merc was atleast the past years. Only now Ferrari is close. This year's Ferrari is miles closer and more equal than the Ferrari's in Alonso's stint ever were.

It was a huge mistake though for Alonso to go to Mclaren-Honda, though i understand the lure back then.

[Manoah2u]

Is this already "being official"?

http://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/gp- ... b4656.html

http://e00-marca.uecdn.es/assets/multim ... 696085.jpg

I guess it depends on who's hand is holding it...

looking at the smiles of the Honda guys, i think they're in for some good stuff. Next year toro rosso top 3

[Mad]

Is this already "being official"?

http://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/gp- ... b4656.html

http://e00-marca.uecdn.es/assets/multim ... 696085.jpg

I guess it depends on who's hand is holding it...

looking at the smiles of the Honda guys, i think they're in for some good stuff. Next year toro rosso top 3

Maybe they finalized the redbull contract from 2019...
They just got upgraded from mclaren to Redbull despite having the worst PU...genius i tell u

[Morteza]

https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/908640406639972352

[marvin78]

Why is Ferraris non-success not an Alonso non-success? If you let the BS of Alonso doing miracles aside, he had a very good car in 2 Ferrari seaons which clearly was able to win the WC. I can't see that Alonso was not part of losing those possible titles.

i understand your reasoning but i will bring in the not so insignificant matter of Schumacher.

Schumacher was a 7-time WDC. There really doesn't need to be any doubt whether he is one of the all time legends.

1998, 1999 he was beaten by Hakkinen. Was the Ferrari not a WC capable car? yes, it was. Not downgrading Hakkinen's capacity, but the Mclaren was a very good car, better than the Ferrari.

Was losing 2 titles then Schumacher's fault? is Schumacher less great because he got beaten by Hakkinnen?

1996: Beaten by hill by a single point. I don't regard Hill at all as a better driver than Schumacher. The Ferrari just wasn't up for the task enough, despite being a WC capable car. I think this is a good comparison to Alonso. He had to battle people with vastly superior material.

Also; In Senna's tragic year, Schumacher had a vastly greater car, hence why Senna's chances on the WDC were slimming down no matter what happened during the year (assuming he had not perished).

You win and lose as a team, sure. But fact is, the RedBull was just too big of a catch, just as the Merc was atleast the past years. Only now Ferrari is close. This year's Ferrari is miles closer and more equal than the Ferrari's in Alonso's stint ever were.

It was a huge mistake though for Alonso to go to Mclaren-Honda, though i understand the lure back then.

Hold your breath. I did not say, it was Alonsos fault. I said, he was part of it. Nothing more, nothing less. He was not patient enough to work through the rough parts with several teams now. You nearly always make your bed yourself. There is absolutly no objective reason for feeling sorry for someone you don't really know and is responsible for his own choices. I just don't understand why someone is, But I accept it.

[Mad]

Why is Ferraris non-success not an Alonso non-success? If you let the BS of Alonso doing miracles aside, he had a very good car in 2 Ferrari seaons which clearly was able to win the WC. I can't see that Alonso was not part of losing those possible titles.

i understand your reasoning but i will bring in the not so insignificant matter of Schumacher.

Schumacher was a 7-time WDC. There really doesn't need to be any doubt whether he is one of the all time legends.

1998, 1999 he was beaten by Hakkinen. Was the Ferrari not a WC capable car? yes, it was. Not downgrading Hakkinen's capacity, but the Mclaren was a very good car, better than the Ferrari.

Was losing 2 titles then Schumacher's fault? is Schumacher less great because he got beaten by Hakkinnen?

1996: Beaten by hill by a single point. I don't regard Hill at all as a better driver than Schumacher. The Ferrari just wasn't up for the task enough, despite being a WC capable car. I think this is a good comparison to Alonso. He had to battle people with vastly superior material.

Also; In Senna's tragic year, Schumacher had a vastly greater car, hence why Senna's chances on the WDC were slimming down no matter what happened during the year (assuming he had not perished).

You win and lose as a team, sure. But fact is, the RedBull was just too big of a catch, just as the Merc was atleast the past years. Only now Ferrari is close. This year's Ferrari is miles closer and more equal than the Ferrari's in Alonso's stint ever were.

It was a huge mistake though for Alonso to go to Mclaren-Honda, though i understand the lure back then.

Also didnt alonso make a mistake in Silverstone in 2010 that cost of the title, i remember Domenicalli mentioned it once
Wasn't Renault the best car in 2005 and 2006 because of the Mass Damper thing?

[dr_cooke]

Why is Ferraris non-success not an Alonso non-success? If you let the BS of Alonso doing miracles aside, he had a very good car in 2 Ferrari seaons which clearly was able to win the WC. I can't see that Alonso was not part of losing those possible titles.

1996: Beaten by hill by a single point. I don't regard Hill at all as a better driver than Schumacher. The Ferrari just wasn't up for the task enough, despite being a WC capable car. I think this is a good comparison to Alonso. He had to battle people with vastly superior material.

.

97-59, me thinks

[RS200E]

I assume this means Alonso will not participate in F1 next year. There's no way Mclaren - Renault is going to be a secure winning team. I might be thoroughly mistaken though.
It would mean Renault must have some godlike engine nextyear and Mclaren's chassis must be indeed beyond anything out there.

They'll have to fight Mercedes, Ferrari and RedBull to be able to win races - plural.

Don't be so dramatic.

They don't have to fight the top 3. What's going to happen will happen and if Alonso leaves, McLaren will continue and for 2018 will be better than 2017.

[dren]

Nothing we havent debated before, but hey! The more the merrier no?

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... orce-honda

"humiliating loss of prestige"

In my opinion, that happened before Honda joined.

Mclaren decline goes way back to 2007. Spygate started the chain of events that brought Mclaren to where it is today.

Until 2007, Mclaren was Mercedes "works team", and had been so for more than a decade. I believe that Mercedes was a Mclaren´s shareholder.

After that scandal, Mercedes set to establish his own team, buying Brawn GP and renaming it "Mercedes AMG Petronas"; Mclaren become just another customer and started the path to midfield trailing his former nemesis, Williams.

Honda was Mclaren´s last chance to return to greatness under current engine rules. Now, it´s clear that Mclaren decided to be midfielder, at least until 2021.

Yes, this is what I was getting at. Ironic, that the decline started the last time Fred was in the car. I remember when people thought Hamilton was crazy for jumping ship to Mercedes.

[Mad]

Why is Ferraris non-success not an Alonso non-success? If you let the BS of Alonso doing miracles aside, he had a very good car in 2 Ferrari seaons which clearly was able to win the WC. I can't see that Alonso was not part of losing those possible titles.

i understand your reasoning but i will bring in the not so insignificant matter of Schumacher.

Schumacher was a 7-time WDC. There really doesn't need to be any doubt whether he is one of the all time legends.

1998, 1999 he was beaten by Hakkinen. Was the Ferrari not a WC capable car? yes, it was. Not downgrading Hakkinen's capacity, but the Mclaren was a very good car, better than the Ferrari.

Was losing 2 titles then Schumacher's fault? is Schumacher less great because he got beaten by Hakkinnen?

1996: Beaten by hill by a single point. I don't regard Hill at all as a better driver than Schumacher. The Ferrari just wasn't up for the task enough, despite being a WC capable car. I think this is a good comparison to Alonso. He had to battle people with vastly superior material.

Also; In Senna's tragic year, Schumacher had a vastly greater car, hence why Senna's chances on the WDC were slimming down no matter what happened during the year (assuming he had not perished).

You win and lose as a team, sure. But fact is, the RedBull was just too big of a catch, just as the Merc was atleast the past years. Only now Ferrari is close. This year's Ferrari is miles closer and more equal than the Ferrari's in Alonso's stint ever were.

It was a huge mistake though for Alonso to go to Mclaren-Honda, though i understand the lure back then.

Hold your breath. I did not say, it was Alonsos fault. I said, he was part of it. Nothing more, nothing less. He was not patient enough to work through the rough parts with several teams now. You nearly always make your bed yourself. There is absolutly no objective reason for feeling sorry for someone you don't really know and is responsible for his own choices. I just don't understand why someone is, But I accept it.

When you are as good as Alonso is you build a legion of fans who will defend your every action whether they were right or wrong. Kinda like Rossi and Motogp.