2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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If Alonso doesn't win, it's cause the car isn't good enough. When he wins, it's cause he out drove the car.
Honda!

Mad
Mad
1
Joined: 15 Apr 2016, 12:13

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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dren wrote:
15 Sep 2017, 12:47
Jacinto wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 23:12
dren wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 18:36


"humiliating loss of prestige"

In my opinion, that happened before Honda joined.
Mclaren decline goes way back to 2007. Spygate started the chain of events that brought Mclaren to where it is today.

Until 2007, Mclaren was Mercedes "works team", and had been so for more than a decade. I believe that Mercedes was a Mclaren´s shareholder.

After that scandal, Mercedes set to establish his own team, buying Brawn GP and renaming it "Mercedes AMG Petronas"; Mclaren become just another customer and started the path to midfield trailing his former nemesis, Williams.

Honda was Mclaren´s last chance to return to greatness under current engine rules. Now, it´s clear that Mclaren decided to be midfielder, at least until 2021.
Yes, this is what I was getting at. Ironic, that the decline started the last time Fred was in the car. I remember when people thought Hamilton was crazy for jumping ship to Mercedes.
Porche seems to be heading towards Redbull, so unless Mclaren pours their own money into making their own/Cosworth engines, midfield is where they will stay.

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dren
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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1 Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull/Renault 1m42.489s - 21
2 Sebastian Vettel Ferrari 1m42.598s 0.109s 21
3 Max Verstappen Red Bull/Renault 1m42.610s 0.121s 23
4 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1m42.904s 0.415s 27
5 Sergio Perez Force India/Mercedes 1m43.423s 0.934s 25
6 Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 1m43.434s 0.945s 27
7 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 1m43.734s 1.245s 25
8 Fernando Alonso McLaren/Honda 1m43.759s 1.270s 19
9 Nico Hulkenberg Renault 1m44.101s 1.612s 24
10 Daniil Kvyat Toro Rosso/Renault 1m44.220s 1.731s 25
11 Stoffel Vandoorne McLaren/Honda 1m44.340s 1.851s 25
12 Jolyon Palmer Renault 1m44.961s 2.472s 25
13 Esteban Ocon Force India/Mercedes 1m45.053s 2.564s 25
14 Felipe Massa Williams/Mercedes 1m45.084s 2.595s 27
15 Romain Grosjean Haas/Ferrari 1m46.456s 3.967s 20
16 Antonio Giovinazzi Haas/Ferrari 1m46.782s 4.293s 27
17 Lance Stroll Williams/Mercedes 1m47.190s 4.701s 11
18 Sean Gelael Toro Rosso/Renault 1m47.570s 5.081s 26
19 Marcus Ericsson Sauber/Ferrari 1m47.699s 5.210s 23
20 Pascal Wehrlein Sauber/Ferrari 1m47.886s 5.397s 24
Honda!

DFX
DFX
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Joined: 27 May 2016, 19:56

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Mad wrote:
15 Sep 2017, 12:42
Also didnt alonso make a mistake in Silverstone in 2010 that cost of the title, i remember Domenicalli mentioned it once
Wasn't Renault the best car in 2005 and 2006 because of the Mass Damper thing?
I dont recall the Silverstone mistake, have to google it. But he stayed in contention in the championship by getting points whenever he could, one or two mistakes in a season is understandable but is also quite rare from him.
Renault maybe was the best in 2005, in 2006 the mass damper was deamed to be a "moving aero part", somehow, and banned after the car was already developed around it. Renault started behind in the season and caught up to Ferrari. Few races was the Renault the fastest car, majority of times was Renault/Alonso putting themselves in good position and defending from Ferrari attacks until race finish.

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adrianjordan
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010, 11:34
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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I've said it before, but I genuinely think that Mclaren will get better support from Renault than RBR will in 2018. Renault have said that their team won't be in a position to win next year and RBR are heading to another supplier, so I can see them thinking as Mclaren as being their best shot at wins in 2018...
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

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dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: Honda Power Unit

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It looks like Liberty Media played a big role in the whole swap.
Honda!

ollandos
ollandos
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Joined: 22 May 2014, 07:28

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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looks like this nightmare go to end for mclaren ...renault have 35-40hp gap to close right now and long time develop program on line for next season ...if renault cut the half gap next season and mclaren continue the chassis develop on right way mclaren can win ..only they need a small step from renault and they self ....

Sonador
Sonador
3
Joined: 06 May 2016, 17:26

Re: Honda Power Unit

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I am so sad :(

But happy for Honda, the amount of sh*t they have gotten from Mclaren was just cringeworthy.
Mclaren has learned nothing of the great mentality Honda has.

I realy liked the Mclaren of the "old" days, the new Mclaren has become a talented mental diva.
Bit like Alonso ....

No words to describe this situation. :wtf:

f1rules
f1rules
597
Joined: 11 Jan 2004, 15:34
Location: Denmark

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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the way the press release is written it do sound like Renault sees Mclaren as their new Partner, if they really cooperate this could be a very fruitfull colaboration

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Chuckjr
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Joined: 24 Feb 2012, 08:34
Location: USA

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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dren wrote:
15 Sep 2017, 12:47
Jacinto wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 23:12
dren wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 18:36


"humiliating loss of prestige"

In my opinion, that happened before Honda joined.
Mclaren decline goes way back to 2007. Spygate started the chain of events that brought Mclaren to where it is today.

Until 2007, Mclaren was Mercedes "works team", and had been so for more than a decade. I believe that Mercedes was a Mclaren´s shareholder.

After that scandal, Mercedes set to establish his own team, buying Brawn GP and renaming it "Mercedes AMG Petronas"; Mclaren become just another customer and started the path to midfield trailing his former nemesis, Williams.

Honda was Mclaren´s last chance to return to greatness under current engine rules. Now, it´s clear that Mclaren decided to be midfielder, at least until 2021.
Yes, this is what I was getting at. Ironic, that the decline started the last time Fred was in the car. I remember when people thought Hamilton was crazy for jumping ship to Mercedes.
Virtually everyone believed he was crazy to go to Merc. No one, including Lewis, could have possibly known the Mercedes would become an impossible car to beat. I personally think the utter domination surprised even Mercedes.

If Fred can stay in top shape, I can see him -like Schumacher did- driving into his 40's, but sans all those years off like Schumacher took. I don't see Lewis driving into his 40's, so Fred will likely avail himself some additional years to win which maybe other strong drivers wouldn't stick around long enough to realize.
Watching F1 since 1986.

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RS200E
-4
Joined: 27 Feb 2017, 13:13

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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dren wrote:
15 Sep 2017, 12:47
Jacinto wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 23:12
dren wrote:
14 Sep 2017, 18:36


"humiliating loss of prestige"

In my opinion, that happened before Honda joined.
Mclaren decline goes way back to 2007. Spygate started the chain of events that brought Mclaren to where it is today.

Until 2007, Mclaren was Mercedes "works team", and had been so for more than a decade. I believe that Mercedes was a Mclaren´s shareholder.

After that scandal, Mercedes set to establish his own team, buying Brawn GP and renaming it "Mercedes AMG Petronas"; Mclaren become just another customer and started the path to midfield trailing his former nemesis, Williams.

Honda was Mclaren´s last chance to return to greatness under current engine rules. Now, it´s clear that Mclaren decided to be midfielder, at least until 2021.
Yes, this is what I was getting at. Ironic, that the decline started the last time Fred was in the car. I remember when people thought Hamilton was crazy for jumping ship to Mercedes.
What the hell you talking about decline.

When Alonso left, Hamilton won the Championship in 2008. Real decline there huh!

2009 was a bad start but an epic show of McLaren's ability to upgrade the car during the season, eventually becoming race winners and 3rd in the championship.

2010 2nd in Constructors championship

2011 2nd in Constructors Championship

2012 3rd in Constructors championship

Then you could say a decline started which was due to firstly a costly but fairly clear design mistake in 2013.

2014 divorce from Mercedes looming.

2015 - 2017 Honda produce worst engine setting McLaren back.


So if there is a decline it was 2013 and 2014, then Honda came which again is clear - crap engine, worst engine in F1.


You should really read up on things before posting.
The power of Red Bull Powertrains!

harjan
harjan
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Joined: 05 Dec 2016, 08:28

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Weird right- you deliver an engine that's unreliable and underpowered to one of the most successful teams in F1 and they start complaining after 3 years..

I'm very very happy. Hope Honda finds it feet in the more relaxed environment STR will bring and more than happy to see McLaren can start fighting for podiums again.

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F1NAC
170
Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: Honda Power Unit

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I assume that from now on it will be much easier for them to develop PU without constant pressure from McLaren. Unfortunately they didn't deliver yet, so hopefully next year they would be at least on Renault level

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etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit

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Wonderful news for me because my first concern was seeing Honda in F1. With this deal Honda's F1 future guaranteed. I like to see them even if back of the grid. Of course prefer to see them winning.
Other thing that I am happy is McLaren won't benefit from Honda's possible development. I say so because I don't want to see them winning with Honda after so much insult.
I hope Honda will do their job good and also support Toro Rosso to beat McLaren with a good chassis.

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dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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I know what happened. I've followed the team ever since Button joined them.
Honda!