2017 Singapore Grand Prix - 1st lap crash discussion

[Zynerji]

He wasn't run off track...

[Shakeman]

To suggest this was Max's fault after seeing the accident in slow-mo from every conceivable angle is akin to being an astronaut on the ISS and believing in a flat earth.

[NathanOlder]

He wasn't run off track...

Yeah, and look what happened. Seb made a move that would have run them off the track.

[NathanOlder]

To suggest this was Max's fault after seeing the accident in slow-mo from every conceivable angle is akin to being an astronaut on the ISS and believing in a flat earth.

Spot on.

[OneAlex]

I think the stewards made the right call in not apportioning blame to anyone. It was a domino affect caused by the sandwich.

Ultimately Seb was only thinking of Max overtaking him and not the risk of Kimi overtaking Max on the other side, Max was watching Seb and not Kimi, Kimi couldn't see Seb sandwiching Max.

Seb caused the problem by moving into Max, Max made the first hit moving from Seb and into Kimi, and Kimi completed the trinity by collecting them both.

I think ultimately Seb took too much risk and was too aggressive trying to fend off Max considering the championship at stake, so he made the biggest mistake and paid the highest price. He had the most to lose and simply didn't take the start wisely enough for someone in that position.

[FrukostScones]

No further action.

[Juzh]

Expected outcome.

[TAG]

Vettel was first, and most entitled to choose his line.

And choose his line he did. How did that work out for him?

This was a racing incident, it cost us some fantastic on track battles IMO, but c'est la vie. Instead we move to Malaysia with the championship lead swung the other way.

[jz11]

To suggest this was Max's fault after seeing the accident in slow-mo from every conceivable angle is akin to being an astronaut on the ISS and believing in a flat earth.

it isn't quite that clear cut, especially if you look at the thing in real time, in slow mo, if you're in the RedBull (I intentionally say in RB, not "if you're VER"), you back out and let Kimi past and slot in behind VET, but since VER is a born champion, just missing a proper car, has nothing to lose, he simply expects the world to turn around him and so he did what everyone expected of him, but that is if you look at slow motion, in real time there was basically nothing he could do to avoid this disaster

VET was closing the door, everyone expects that, what he didn't expect was Kimi emerging there

and Kimi had at least a cars width to the left, but since he didn't see what was behind VER, he couldn't have foreseen the problem caused by him trying to get closer to proper racing line

so all 3 of them did what was expected, with VER especially doing his usual, and his comment - VET shouldn't risk as much because of the championship stake, it applies to him in the very same way - he did nothing, because he had nothing to lose

I personally blame the red lights going off, and rule that as the prime cause of the incident.

[TAG]

https://twitter.com/ScuderiaFerrari/sta ... 8630003716 Actually the most embarrassing thing this weekend was this tweet from Ferrari. Their [...] fans here are merely reflecting their lead. Talk about lack of dignity. =D>

[Restomaniac]

To suggest this was Max's fault after seeing the accident in slow-mo from every conceivable angle is akin to being an astronaut on the ISS and believing in a flat earth.

it isn't quite that clear cut, especially if you look at the thing in real time, in slow mo, if you're in the RedBull (I intentionally say in RB, not "if you're VER"), you back out and let Kimi past and slot in behind VET, but since VER is a born champion, just missing a proper car, has nothing to lose, he simply expects the world to turn around him and so he did what everyone expected of him, but that is if you look at slow motion, in real time there was basically nothing he could do to avoid this disaster

VET was closing the door, everyone expects that, what he didn't expect was Kimi emerging there

and Kimi had at least a cars width to the left, but since he didn't see what was behind VER, he couldn't have foreseen the problem caused by him trying to get closer to proper racing line

so all 3 of them did what was expected, with VER especially doing his usual, and his comment - VET shouldn't risk as much because of the championship stake, it applies to him in the very same way - he did nothing, because he had nothing to lose

I personally blame the red lights going off, and rule that as the prime cause of the incident.

He tried to back out when he saw he was in the middle of a Ferrari pincer movement. He didn't have the time to do so.

[Zynerji]

https://twitter.com/ScuderiaFerrari/sta ... 8630003716

Actually the most embarrassing thing this weekend was this tweet from Ferrari. Their fans here are merely reflecting their lead. Talk about lack of dignity. =D>

Ver hit Rai. You cannot dispute that fact.

[jz11]

To suggest this was Max's fault after seeing the accident in slow-mo from every conceivable angle is akin to being an astronaut on the ISS and believing in a flat earth.

it isn't quite that clear cut, especially if you look at the thing in real time, in slow mo, if you're in the RedBull (I intentionally say in RB, not "if you're VER"), you back out and let Kimi past and slot in behind VET, but since VER is a born champion, just missing a proper car, has nothing to lose, he simply expects the world to turn around him and so he did what everyone expected of him, but that is if you look at slow motion, in real time there was basically nothing he could do to avoid this disaster

VET was closing the door, everyone expects that, what he didn't expect was Kimi emerging there

and Kimi had at least a cars width to the left, but since he didn't see what was behind VER, he couldn't have foreseen the problem caused by him trying to get closer to proper racing line

so all 3 of them did what was expected, with VER especially doing his usual, and his comment - VET shouldn't risk as much because of the championship stake, it applies to him in the very same way - he did nothing, because he had nothing to lose

I personally blame the red lights going off, and rule that as the prime cause of the incident.

He tried to back out when he saw he was in the middle of a Ferrari pincer movement. He didn't have the time to do so.

that was exactly why I wrote - if you look at slow motion of the accident, you can think - waaait, why didn't he back off and slot behind VET, for those people - look at the accident in real time, there was basically no time for him to react

but you can wonder how many of these incidents did he have this year... so there is a basis for assumption that he isn't just unlucky

[iotar__]

Why separate thread ? There was nothing going on in the race apart from this mess.

How is a chop at the start that takes out 3 other cars not penalised? Who caused this collision if not Vettel? That's the third time this season after China start and Silverstone impeding. Only boxing is more openly fraudulent than F1.

The funny thing about the crash/chop was that it was completely unnecessary, Verstappen was already getting passed by Raikkonen. Third win lost after Russia and Baku, fourth with Spain lead, fifth without Monaco team orders. Austria winnable and Canada wasted at the first corner.

[Restomaniac]

it isn't quite that clear cut, especially if you look at the thing in real time, in slow mo, if you're in the RedBull (I intentionally say in RB, not "if you're VER"), you back out and let Kimi past and slot in behind VET, but since VER is a born champion, just missing a proper car, has nothing to lose, he simply expects the world to turn around him and so he did what everyone expected of him, but that is if you look at slow motion, in real time there was basically nothing he could do to avoid this disaster

VET was closing the door, everyone expects that, what he didn't expect was Kimi emerging there

and Kimi had at least a cars width to the left, but since he didn't see what was behind VER, he couldn't have foreseen the problem caused by him trying to get closer to proper racing line

so all 3 of them did what was expected, with VER especially doing his usual, and his comment - VET shouldn't risk as much because of the championship stake, it applies to him in the very same way - he did nothing, because he had nothing to lose

I personally blame the red lights going off, and rule that as the prime cause of the incident.

He tried to back out when he saw he was in the middle of a Ferrari pincer movement. He didn't have the time to do so.

that was exactly why I wrote - if you look at slow motion of the accident, you can think - waaait, why didn't he back off and slot behind VET, for those people - look at the accident in real time, there was basically no time for him to react

but you can wonder how many of these incidents did he have this year... so there is a basis for assumption that he isn't just unlucky

True but sometimes like today you look at think 'Nah that's not on Max unless he can see the future or read minds'.