Porsche & the buzz around 2021 Engine Regulations

[marmer]

So it seems that Reb Bull won't partner with Porsche after all! Aston Martin may be their 2021 engine partner...!

https://www.facebook.com/skysportsf1/vi ... 794187811/

Although i would love to see the Porsche-Red Bull partnership coming true, i would not bother at all seeing Aston Martin-Red Bull and maybe Williams-Porsche! I would have also said Mclaren-Porsche but i think being competitors in the car industry won't help at all!

The idea of McLaren and Porsche could work providing they agree to not make cars that compete for the same market. Perhaps Porsche doing sports cars and super and just have McLaren doing hyper cars using Porsche powertrains but just for an easy fit Williams would be easier for them.

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[kptaylor]

Does AM build their own engines? I thought they used Merc motors.

[Medingen]

Given the current (and foreseeable political future) in Germany (and the EU), I doubt Porsche will be allowed by shareholders to have a team, and very possibly the same goes for being a PU supplier. I'd wish, but I just do not see it.

[marmer]

Given the current (and foreseeable political future) in Germany (and the EU), I doubt Porsche will be allowed by shareholders to have a team, and very possibly the same goes for being a PU supplier. I'd wish, but I just do not see it.

Not heard anything about this I know the election is coming up but why would that affect a multinational company.

[TAG]

Given the current (and foreseeable political future) in Germany (and the EU), I doubt Porsche will be allowed by shareholders to have a team, and very possibly the same goes for being a PU supplier. I'd wish, but I just do not see it.

Can you clarify? I think the entirety of Porsche even being available is because they chose to pull out of WEC. I doubt that Porsche will remain unattached to a motor racing organization with global viewership and interest.

[adrianjordan]

Given the current (and foreseeable political future) in Germany (and the EU), I doubt Porsche will be allowed by shareholders to have a team, and very possibly the same goes for being a PU supplier. I'd wish, but I just do not see it.

So can we expect Mercedes to pull out as well then??

Why would politics or shareholders prevent them from engaging in, what is proven to be very effective, marketing activities in an area directly related to their are of business??

[roon]

Where would a Porsche factory effort source their drivers from? Just choose from the best available whose contracts are ending?

[strad]

I can't help but think about Sir Franks history of being tight fisted. Some might even say cheap.

[AJI]

I very much doubt Porsche are coming to F1 in any form. All signs point to the current PU being used for 2021 and beyond.

[marmer]

Not happening in 2021 the engine regulations are still not set and look to be sliding to a later season.
So if they joined in 2021 it would be to current regulations that they would be years behind on development and then having to develop a new engine for the new regulations. Who would take that engine after seeing honda struggles and even Renault who started in year 1 still struggling compared to Merc and Ferrari.
They might as well wait until totally new regulations are set and start developing and be ready for a team to use them or buy a smaller team outright

[roon]

But they contested a small-displacement high-compression DI engine with an MGUH attached for four (?) years in LMP1. So they'd be going in with a lot of intel. As mentioned by ESPImperium in another thread, there may be a useful technological convergence for an F1 entry and their 2020 top-tier WEC entry. If they do not go with a full-factory effort in F1, they would want to partner with the best customer team, which currently has a contract with Honda... til 2020?

[Dr. Acula]

But they contested a small-displacement high-compression DI engine with an MGUH attached for four (?) years in LMP1. So they'd be going in with a lot of intel. As mentioned by ESPImperium in another thread, there may be a useful technological convergence for an F1 entry and their 2020 top-tier WEC entry. If they do not go with a full-factory effort in F1, they would want to partner with the best customer team, which currently has a contract with Honda... til 2020?

The 919 didn't had a MGU-H.
Porsche placed a turbine into the wastegate pipe which acted as a generator only but used a VGT Turbocharger without any electric support.
This and the more open rules concerning energyflow in LMP1 made it a much simpler setup compared to what we see now in F1.

[roon]

The 919 didn't had a MGU-H.

Semantic distinction. It had an MGU attached to a heat-energy recovery turbine. Depending on the properties of the system, there may have been use for both motoring and generating the device.

This and the more open rules concerning energyflow in LMP1 made it a much simpler setup compared to what we see now in F1.

In what sense do you consider it simpler? 4WD, MGUK, MGUH/ERS-H, turbosupercharger with VGT, MJ deploy restrictions, etc.

Here's the LMP1 energy flow diagram:

[Dr. Acula]

The 919 didn't had a MGU-H.

Semantic distinction. It had an MGU attached to a heat-energy recovery turbine. Depending on the properties of the system, there may have been use for both motoring and generating the device.

This and the more open rules concerning energyflow in LMP1 made it a much simpler setup compared to what we see now in F1.

In what sense do you consider it simpler? 4WD, MGUK, MGUH/ERS-H, turbosupercharger with VGT, MJ deploy restrictions, etc.

Here's the LMP1 energy flow diagram:

https://i.imgur.com/kgwZAjJ.png

Well, the diagram shows every possible energyflow within the rules. The interesting part is what is writen under the diagram. It is only aloud to use 2 energy recovery systems. Porsche decided to harvest at the front axle under braking, so basically with a MGU-K and with an exhaust turbine.
The energyflow diagram for the 919 would much more look like this:



The Deployment limit in LMP1 is basically a hard cap. It's not like in F1 where you have the 4MJ from the ES to the MGU-K and the 2MJ limit in the opposite direction.
There's never the question where the energy is used for the greatest effect in the 919 because there's only one motor to send it to. (Well, technically 2 because they use 2 motors on the front axle but you get the point...)
So, there are only two things to do actually. Find a way to harvest at least 8MJ every lap in LeMans and determine the best places on the track to deploy the energy and your job is done. There's no way around the 8MJ deployment limit.

In F1 you have to get around the 4MJ ES to MGU-K limit, the 2MJ MGU-K to ES limit as good as you can. You have to answer the question if it is more efficient to send some energy from the MGU-H to the ES for later use or better directly support the MGU-K or split the generated energy up...and so on and so on. Compared to the LMP1, energy managment in F1 is hell.

[ScottB]

Weren't Williams involved in the 919's hybrid development?