2017 Malaysia Grand Prix - Sepang, 29 September-01 October

[Sieper]

Yes, Thank you, that is engine mapping and they change that even through the weekend, part of the car set up nowadays. Also the power is not only there only at the very top speed (where drag indeed reduces it to almost nill advantage) but where it counts is just after the corner, going on the gas whilst starting at 100 / 150kph. That advantges keeps your momentum, end top speed on the whole straight just building up.

[Moose]

I guess that's the reason then V6 is 20+ kph faster on the straights on average compared to the V8s even with a lot more drag. /s

Yes - they have ~250 more horses (35% more), and go 20kph faster (5% more) (which, not so coincidentally works out to roughly the cube of 35%).

Mercedes have at most 20 more horses than Ferrari (~2%), which will result in a top speed increase of .0008%, aka 0.0028km/h.

The speed difference is their aero efficiency, not the engine.

All fine and cool, except power output is not constant troughout the lap since 2014 onwards, so there are situations where mercedes can have upwards of 80 or more horse power on the end of long straights. That's why In singapore ferrari was +/-1 kph compared to mercedes in all speed traps that favour power output, and that's also why they've been 10 kph down on some other tracks.

At 80 horses up (8.4%), they'd end up having a top speed 0.05% faster (0.2km/h), not 1-10.

You seem to be misunderstanding how cubic relationships work here.

If you want a top speed of 360km/h instead of 350km/h, then you need to do one of two things:
1) Have an engine that's 30% more powerful than your opponent (completely unrealistic, unless you're talking different engine specs)
2) Have 2.8% less drag than your opponent (completely realistic, and exactly what's going on here)

[drunkf1fan]

At 80 horses up (8.4%), they'd end up having a top speed 0.05% faster (0.2km/h), not 1-10.

You seem to be misunderstanding how cubic relationships work here.

If you want a top speed of 360km/h instead of 350km/h, then you need to do one of two things:
1) Have an engine that's 30% more powerful than your opponent (completely unrealistic, unless you're talking different engine specs)
2) Have 2.8% less drag than your opponent (completely realistic, and exactly what's going on here)

People seem to constantly question Merc's car and how they will go a different direction to get more downforce. But being slightly weaker at 4-5 tracks while being stronger at 15, it's absurd to alter the car design to improve at 5 tracks at the expense of getting worse in 15 other tracks.

Merc have had this style of car since 2013, they've had plenty of chance to go for a higher downforce car but it would bring higher drag and they quite clearly don't want to.

I think it's also highly questionable that Ferrari were faster in Spa. Lap data quite clearly shows Hamilton backing into Vettel on purpose when the gap got bigger after the pitstop. He did a 109 second lap out of the pit, found the gap was around 4 seconds to Vettel after his stop, Ham then dropped into the 110's, let the gap close, maybe let the gap get a bit closer than he wanted and did a couple 108's to be a bit more comfortably ahead.

In spa Vettel himself had no problem staying with Ham up the hill after the restart, he wasn't sliding all over the track because he was close, no one else had trouble with the same thing, slipstreaming wasn't an issue. If Ferrari had more downforce and were faster everywhere but the straight, he'd be in the DRS zone repeatedly but not be able to out drag Mercedes. Instead what we had was a car supposedly faster who couldn't get into the drs zone at I believe any stage in the entire race? People see a close gap and assume the car behind is faster, but think back to any race Hamilton couldn't pass but had the faster overall car, Spain in multiple years. Despite the supposed situation(which I've never bought at all) that Merc can't follow cars he managed to stick to Vettel's rear wing for a couple of dozen laps with no issue I think last year, within DRS again and again. Then this year in Hungary he was in the DRS zone repeatedly again.

Just how well Hamilton controlled that race, just how confident he was sitting just out of DRS for literally the entire race is what convinces me just how much faster Mercedes was in Spa.

[godlameroso]

It's too close between them, whoever is in front can stay there, the one who loses is the one that makes the most mistakes. Starting first is important, but more important is being first after that first set of corners. The only other option is capitalizing when someone makes a mistake, and making fewer yourself. The Mercedes have the edge in qualifiying, and a pace advantage at certain tracks. Things are much closer than the results indicate, and I still think Ferrari will have a slight edge here.

[ChrisDanger]

Well, finally the weekend starts in earnest. Pity about the conditions but still an interesting result.

[Vanja #66]

So, this is a Merc track you guys say?

[F1Krof]

So, this is a Merc track you guys say?

Not anymore I guess.

[Sevach]

Ferrari looking good.

Mercedes looking like a distant 3rd force, Hamilton and Bottas on different rear wings same pace.

[WaikeCU]

I think the Mercs are sandbagging. This gap between Lewis and Vettel is unreal. Mercs running with turned down engines conserving life is my guess.

[bonjon1979]

So, this is a Merc track you guys say?

Not anymore I guess.

I think Alonso being quicker over a single lap tells you that there is quite a bit more to come from the merc. Ferrari look mega though.

[Sevach]

Hamilton's SS visually spitting out rubber.

Raikkonen caught Bottas, let him go and caught him again.

[Sevach]

Tire explosion and big off for Grosjean.

[Tommy Cookers]

[quote=Moose]If you want a top speed of 360km/h instead of 350km/h, then you need to do one of two things:
1) Have an engine that's 30% more powerful than your opponent (completely unrealistic, unless you're talking different engine specs)
2) Have 2.8% less drag than your opponent (completely realistic, and exactly what's going on here)[/quote]

Moose, afaik if you want a top speed of 360 kph instead of 350 kph you need to do one of these two things.....

1) have an engine that's 8.8 % more powerful than your opponent's
2) have 5.8% less drag than your opponent

drag is a force and proportional to the square of speed
power is the rate at which work is being done and so is drag times speed

[Morteza]

[ChrisDanger]

Session stopped after a drain cover at turn 13 ripped Grojean's tyre off and sent him into the barriers.

https://streamable.com/isvbt