Mercedes AMG F1 W08 EQ Power +

[digitalrurouni]

I just read on sky sports that Hamilton reverted back to the previous aero package. That is quite surprising news!

[Morteza]

[Sevach]

I just read on sky sports that Hamilton reverted back to the previous aero package. That is quite surprising news!

Latest infos say he will stick with it for the rest of the weekend.

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/914040172378914819

[designf1]

@ImanHansra

Lastly, it is interesting to note that, on the W08, the team’s maximum downforce front and rear wings are being used for the race. Therefore, on a track demanding greater straightline speed than Singapore, Mercedes is actually running a more drag-inducing set-up (it did not use the maximum load front wing there), while Ferrari has gone in the opposite direction.



However, it should be considered that this is the first race at medium speed track since Silverstone, since when a new, more powerful engine has been introduced, and this may have shifted the balance in terms of how much aerodynamic downforce must be run for the optimum laptime. This wing does feature a drag-reduction concept within its design, making it more versatile – there are two upper flap cut-outs near the endplate, lowering the angle of attack here, to achieve a similar result to the spoon-shaped rear wing.

[media]https://twitter.com/ImanHansra/status/9 ... 6006916096[/media]

[F1Krof]

Is this the point where it is concluded that W08 is no longer the fastest?

What is going on, why are they struggling?

[djones]

In one of the interviews after the race, Hamilton said they knew what the fundamental issue was and it needs addressing for next season.

Which tells me it must be something very specific in the design and cannot be fixed by setup changes, only reduced.

[SiLo]

Two races in a row and it appears to be setup changes. One of those races was Singapore where we all expected it.

I don't think it's as bad as some people are making out to be. Mercedes have had tough times in Malaysia before with the tyre temps.

[Ozan]

In one of the interviews after the race, Hamilton said they knew what the fundamental issue was and it needs addressing for next season.

Which tells me it must be something very specific in the design and cannot be fixed by setup changes, only reduced.

probably long wheel design hurting the balance of the car, tyre-wise.

[JasonF1]

Surprisingly, Mercedes seems to have difficulty developing the car while they were at the forefront of the development race in previous years. I wonder what the reason could be:
- Were they so focused on fixing the initial gremlins of the car so that they sacrificed the development of new parts?
- Diminishing return due to the constant iteration and refinement of the Mercedes' design over the past years?(The W08 seems to be an evolution of the W07, which itself was an evolution of the W06 and W05 ones).

Or was it just two tracks which played to the weakness of the Mercedes car?

We will get more clarification by the end of the week I guess.

[cramr]

Surprisingly, Mercedes seems to have difficulty developing the car while they were at the forefront of the development race in previous years. I wonder what the reason could be:
- Were they so focused on fixing the initial gremlins of the car so that they sacrificed the development of new parts?
- Diminishing return due to the constant iteration and refinement of the Mercedes' design over the past years?(The W08 seems to be an evolution of the W07, which itself was an evolution of the W06 and W05 ones).

Or was it just two tracks which played to the weakness of the Mercedes car?

We will get more clarification by the end of the week I guess.

Reaching chassis and/or PU peak performance?
I don't think aero peak performance is close for any team after reg changes

[JasonF1]

Surprisingly, Mercedes seems to have difficulty developing the car while they were at the forefront of the development race in previous years. I wonder what the reason could be:
- Were they so focused on fixing the initial gremlins of the car so that they sacrificed the development of new parts?
- Diminishing return due to the constant iteration and refinement of the Mercedes' design over the past years?(The W08 seems to be an evolution of the W07, which itself was an evolution of the W06 and W05 ones).

Or was it just two tracks which played to the weakness of the Mercedes car?

We will get more clarification by the end of the week I guess.

Reaching chassis and/or PU peak performance?
I don't think aero peak performance is close for any team after reg changes

Aero wise, their philosophy is an evolution of what they had last year and it may be showing its development limit. This aero pathway may not be the one with the most potential of progression. On the other hand, Ferrari who has not only come up with an innovative design, has progressed noticeably throughout the year. They brought significant evolution every 2-3 races while Mercedes barely brought any between Spain and Malaysia.

[wesley123]

Aero wise, their philosophy is an evolution of what they had last year and it may be showing its development limit. This aero pathway may not be the one with the most potential of progression. On the other hand, Ferrari who has not only come up with an innovative design, has progressed noticeably throughout the year. They brought significant evolution every 2-3 races while Mercedes barely brought any between Spain and Malaysia.

imo Mercedes has relied heavily on machine learning this year to come up with what they are doing this year. The incredibly complex design of their package wasn't gradually introduced, as normally would be the case. This, considering limits in windtunnel/cfd testing, would imply something beyond human capabilities.

The problem with that is that it might be near-perfect, but it then still requires a human to understand the car, which is much more complicated with such a developed car.

In-short; Mercedes has outdeveloped itself. Which is something that eventually always happens with the leading team.

[banjo789]

In one of the interviews after the race, Hamilton said they knew what the fundamental issue was and it needs addressing for next season.

Which tells me it must be something very specific in the design and cannot be fixed by setup changes, only reduced.

The fundamental design of the cars suspension was built around the trick ride height control that was banned pre-season. That left Merc with a low rear ride height that could not be ‘self-levelled’ and so had to be stiffened to maintain diffuser efficiency and remove the threat of ‘choking it’ over undulations in the track. This has handicapped the setup of the car all season as the engineers hands are figuratively tied behind their backs with certain aspects of the setup.
Unless Merc can find another way of managing the suspensions sensitivity to pitch/roll then the W08 could be the last of the low rake Merc’s as they look for alternatives for next year.

[banjo789]

With the recruitment of JA at the start of the year, Merc accrued his experience of designing a high rake car. The high rake concept does seem to be the ‘norm’ now in F1 with the W08 as the exception to the rule for the front running cars/chassis. As more FIA technical directives get circulated each year to the teams, the more difficult it is to innovate (Newey’s sabbatical is testament to this) and so next year’s car may not be an evolution of this year’s Diva.

[aral]

Yet another reminder that this thread is dedicated to what is actually on the Mercedes W08. Discussing McLaren and Ferrari does not belong on this thread.