2017 United States Grand Prix - COTA, 20-22 October

[ChrisDanger]

The FIA and Charlie are a JOKE...

Why would they enforce track limits during free practice?

Because it's an official session ? If it was private testing, then it would be a different matter..

If you exceed track limits in qualifying they can remove your time.

If you exceed track limits in the race they can penalise you (give back place, +5 seconds, drive through, or whatever).

What are they going to do in free practice? Also, nothing counts in free practice, so what's the point of enforcing anything anyway?

I would imagine this is discussed in the driver's briefing, so they all know what's allowable.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Good point made on TV about pole being on the dirty side of the track. First corner might be a bit juicy...

I don't think that is true. Just like on all tracks, the pole is on the racing line. Click to enlarge.




This is a screen capture of Lewis' last flier in qualy. This is the place, where is going to start the race from pole.

[f1316]

I haven’t seen the splits but I think i’m right I’m saying all of Mercedes’ advantage came in S2.

After the first runs you saw that Vettel was only fractionally off in S1 and S3 (Kimi fastest in S1) but lost a massive 6 tenths in S2. On the final run, I believe I’m correct in saying that Vettel’s S1 & 3 were actually faster than the pole lap (albeit some others did faster S1’s on other laps).

I don’t see any mention from Lewis or Bottas about being hampered in their prep for the final run - Valterri points to brakes as his issue, not tyres - so think this is a bit of a red herring, likely taken from the fact Crofty called it out on commentary.

Expect a close race.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

I haven’t seen the splits but I think i’m right I’m saying all of Mercedes’ advantage came in S2.

After the first runs you saw that Vettel was only fractionally off in S1 and S3 (Kimi fastest in S1) but lost a massive 6 tenths in S2. On the final run, I believe I’m correct in saying that Vettel’s S1 & 3 were actually faster than the pole lap (albeit some others did faster S1’s on other laps).

I don’t see any mention from Lewis or Bottas about being hampered in their prep for the final run - Valterri points to brakes as his issue, not tyres - so think this is a bit of a red herring, likely taken from the fact Crofty called it out on commentary.

Expect a close race.

On his last flier, Hamilton did a 24.861 for S1, which was the fastest S1 time of the weekend. Then he did 37.502 for S2, which was less than a tenth slower than his banker lap S2 (37.434). His S3 on last flier was 30.866, which again was slower than 30.660 from his banker lap. There seems to be something not right there for the last flier.

Up until the last flier, Hamilton kept improving with every lap. And then, everyone except the two Mercedes', improved on their last flier compared to their banker laps. Co-incidence OR KIMIncidence?

[ChrisDanger]

This is a real pity. I wonder how thorough the cleaning process is, or if this is actually on part of the track used by F1.

[media]https://twitter.com/pressracing/status/ ... 3748375552[/media]

[jz11]

Why would they enforce track limits during free practice?

Because it's an official session ? If it was private testing, then it would be a different matter..

If you exceed track limits in qualifying they can remove your time.

If you exceed track limits in the race they can penalise you (give back place, +5 seconds, drive through, or whatever).

What are they going to do in free practice? Also, nothing counts in free practice, so what's the point of enforcing anything anyway?

I would imagine this is discussed in the driver's briefing, so they all know what's allowable.

I don't know why they even allow this sh1t... it serves nothing else but to judging of the sport subjective and create issues with other official decisions, because afair the rules clearly state that track limits are not to be exceeded, but sometimes somehow it isn't that important and no penalties are handed out, which in turn, because they try to exploit every last bit, will make them try to bend the rules everywhere where it is possible and will allow to gain an advantage

in other words - do not allow this bs anywhere, and you will have 0 issues with this, because everyone knows, keep X amount of wheels inside the white lines or be punished

saying - oh, there is not much gained there - look at it this way - if there was nothing to gain by going outside the track, they wouldn't do it! it is really REALLY that simple, if they go push hard, go wide, get a penalty - this is the difference of a really good pilot and someone who isn't quite there - they push really hard and can hit the marks, compared to someone trying to push really hard, and occasionally hit their marks, but because the judging of the competition is so subjective, they may get away with it and they do

so yes, Charlie&Co are a joke, they simply create space for drama where there should be none, maybe to make themselves feel more important, more in charge of making the decisions (rules)

[ChrisDanger]

I don't know why they even allow this sh1t...

The only negative consequence this has is that it gives people something to complain about. If they penalise one driver but not another then clearly that's a problem, but if it's the same for everyone I really don't see what the big deal is.

[jz11]

the big deal is that there is a rule book, rules are there to be followed, if you start making exceptions, then the teams/drivers will push ALL rules every way possible hoping for exceptions, which in turn will create loads and loads of drama and excess work for the stewards to clear the mess, make additional rules on top of rules on top of exceptions, you see where this is going?

[proteus]

I don't know why they even allow this sh1t...

The only negative consequence this has is that it gives people something to complain about. If they penalise one driver but not another then clearly that's a problem, but if it's the same for everyone I really don't see what the big deal is.

Thats why there should be a sandtrap there. The physics should be punishing drivers, and not the commisionares.

[f1316]

I haven’t seen the splits but I think i’m right I’m saying all of Mercedes’ advantage came in S2.

After the first runs you saw that Vettel was only fractionally off in S1 and S3 (Kimi fastest in S1) but lost a massive 6 tenths in S2. On the final run, I believe I’m correct in saying that Vettel’s S1 & 3 were actually faster than the pole lap (albeit some others did faster S1’s on other laps).

I don’t see any mention from Lewis or Bottas about being hampered in their prep for the final run - Valterri points to brakes as his issue, not tyres - so think this is a bit of a red herring, likely taken from the fact Crofty called it out on commentary.

Expect a close race.

On his last flier, Hamilton did a 24.861 for S1, which was the fastest S1 time of the weekend. Then he did 37.502 for S2, which was less than a tenth slower than his banker lap S2 (37.434). His S3 on last flier was 30.866, which again was slower than 30.660 from his banker lap. There seems to be something not right there for the last flier.

Up until the last flier, Hamilton kept improving with every lap. And then, everyone except the two Mercedes', improved on their last flier compared to their banker laps. Co-incidence OR KIMIncidence?

Well a few points that I think point against Kimi’s positioning having been a factor:

- as I say, neither Mercedes driver made reference of it; Bottas in particular ought to be looking for explanations (excuses?) for why he was again so far off the pace - and indeed did so https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bott ... in-968729/ - but did not list Kimi as a factor

- as you point out, Lewis went quicker in the first sector; if there had been any problem preparing tyres on his out lap, it would show more at the start of the lap rather than the end

- this is far from the first time we’ve seen a Mercedes get pole with the first Q3 run - it was actually quite a feature between Lewis and Nico; given Lewis’ gap to the field, it’s quite possible there was really not much left in it at the end - indeed, I think it’s one of Lewis’ biggest talents to find the limit straight away (bit like Michael) whereas the others take longer to get into the rhythm and so get gradually closer during the weekend (I personally think Seb’s always had that trait - he eases into it more) as they gain the confidence to push to the extreme. As I say, we often saw first fliers taking pole last year


I think all of this talk of Kimi’s involvement also diminishes what was a great lap from Seb; we all give credit where it’s due to Lewis and the constant record breaking is very impressive regardless of what car you’re in (Michael wouldn’t have set the records without great cars and a period of dominance) but let’s also recognise Seb’s achievements - just as we do his self-inflicted shortcomings (Baku, Singapore) - remembering that the championship would still be alive if results of the last three races were a reflection of pure pace.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

- as you point out, Lewis went quicker in the first sector; if there had been any problem preparing tyres on his out lap, it would show more at the start of the lap rather than the end

If you have watched Lewis over the years, while getging a pole, his S1 time is generally a match to the guy in second or slightly slower (exception is when he simply dominates a pole by over half a second). Even on his banker lap, he was slower than Bottas for S1, but scored heavily in S2 and S3. That shows that the tyres were of good yield, only for the first sector and not for the remaining two, which he usually manages to get.

I think all of this talk of Kimi’s involvement also diminishes what was a great lap from Seb; we all give credit where it’s due to Lewis and the constant record breaking is very impressive regardless of what car you’re in (Michael wouldn’t have set the records without great cars and a period of dominance) but let’s also recognise Seb’s achievements - just as we do his self-inflicted shortcomings (Baku, Singapore) - remembering that the championship would still be alive if results of the last three races were a reflection of pure pace.

On Ted's qualifying notebook, he was mentioning that, Kimi's tyre temperature sensors weren't working in Q3. That was what Ferrari have told. Well, never before that Kimi went interrupting a driver ahead, especially on a Q3 run. He had sensor issues and he chose to overtake a driver, which he had never done before? Going faster and trying to overtake a driver, is a good way to prepare tyres, especially when there was sensor issues?

[ChrisDanger]

the big deal is that there is a rule book, rules are there to be followed, if you start making exceptions, then the teams/drivers will push ALL rules every way possible hoping for exceptions, which in turn will create loads and loads of drama and excess work for the stewards to clear the mess, make additional rules on top of rules on top of exceptions, you see where this is going?

That isn't what's happening though. There's no more tendency recently to push the limits of the rules than has always been inherent in the sport.

[f1316]

- as you point out, Lewis went quicker in the first sector; if there had been any problem preparing tyres on his out lap, it would show more at the start of the lap rather than the end

If you have watched Lewis over the years, while getging a pole, his S1 time is generally a match to the guy in second or slightly slower (exception is when he simply dominates a pole by over half a second). Even on his banker lap, he was slower than Bottas for S1, but scored heavily in S2 and S3. That shows that the tyres were of good yield, only for the first sector and not for the remaining two, which he usually manages to get.

I think all of this talk of Kimi’s involvement also diminishes what was a great lap from Seb; we all give credit where it’s due to Lewis and the constant record breaking is very impressive regardless of what car you’re in (Michael wouldn’t have set the records without great cars and a period of dominance) but let’s also recognise Seb’s achievements - just as we do his self-inflicted shortcomings (Baku, Singapore) - remembering that the championship would still be alive if results of the last three races were a reflection of pure pace.

On Ted's qualifying notebook, he was mentioning that, Kimi's tyre temperature sensors weren't working in Q3. That was what Ferrari have told. Well, never before that Kimi went interrupting a driver ahead, especially on a Q3 run. He had sensor issues and he chose to overtake a driver, which he had never done before? Going faster and trying to overtake a driver, is a good way to prepare tyres, especially when there was sensor issues?

Not sure I follow the logic re Kimi’s tyre sensors and suggest that the observations on what Lewis usually does is anecdotal - I guess we can agree to disagree but think it’s far from the situation many on here are suggesting.

Let’s see how it goes in the race; I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Mercedes have been relatively stronger in quali vs race since they’ve been running to different oil burning regs than Ferrari.(and, as i’ve said before, more power to them in spotting the loophole; shame on FIA for introducing the variable mid season).

[godlameroso]

In other news the wind is stronger today, and basically gives you a crosswind for most of the lap. It's also raining heavily atm.

[oT v1]

Track might be a bit green after the rain and ‘post-concert’ cleaning.

Is it forecast to be dry in the race?